cereta: (Oracle)
Lucy ([personal profile] cereta) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2016-01-29 09:36 am

Dear Prudence: Memorial Charity


Q. Dead to me: My twin brother died in an accident last year. My sister raised money for a charity in his memory. He was pro-choice, so I was shocked to find that the charity is a “women’s center” that lures pregnant women in with the promise of free health consultations then tries to persuade them not to have abortions. I confronted her about this, and she refused to apologize, saying that it made her feel better to support a cause she values and that I should let her grieve in her own way. My inclination is never to speak to her again. Is this too harsh a response?

A: It is not. If it truly made her “feel better” to support a cause she values—and it’s telling that rather than donating to a women’s shelter or an organization that supports single parents, she raised money for crisis pregnancy centers that provide women with false information in abhorrent attempts at manipulation—she would not have needed to use your dead brother’s name as cover. You gave her the opportunity to apologize, and she used your brother’s death as an excuse for her nasty little trick. It may be that someday she comes to her senses and realizes what a terrible thing she’s done, but in the meantime, you’re right to want to steer clear of her. I’m so sorry for both of your losses.
minoanmiss: Minoan women talking amongst themselves (Ladies Chatting)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2016-01-29 09:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Intriguing. Now I'm really looking forward to seeing what you think. :)

Putting aside Sister's noxious choice of charities for the moment... when I was younger and my parents would tell me how one day I'd be planning their funerals, I'd fantasize about putting "in lieu of flowers please donate to Act-Up and Planned Parenthood" or something else rhey would have hated that I support. But the last couple of times they did this I had gotten far enough in my thinking that I decided doing such a thing would be disresectful, and it would be better to settle on charities they'd support and I could stomach.

Now, these days it's pretty unlikely I'll be planning their funerals -- I told you about their Replacement Goldfish adopted daughter, right? But if she asks that's how I'd advise her. Having people donate to a charity the deceased would have disagreed with is, IMP, disrespectful to their memory. The LW's sister's choice of charity of course doesn't endear her to me, but even if the politics were switched I would (albeit much more reluctnatly) agree with LW that it was the wrong thing to do.

(edited for typoes)
Edited 2016-01-29 21:56 (UTC)
ellen_fremedon: overlapping pages from Beowulf manuscript, one with a large rubric, on a maroon ground (Default)

[personal profile] ellen_fremedon 2016-01-29 03:50 pm (UTC)(link)
I think the thing that tips the sister's behavior over the line from inappropriate to unforgivable is that she's essentially overwriting the dead brother's own beliefs with her own--as though what she's grieving isn't the brother himself, as a person, but the end of her chances to convert him.
greenygal: (Default)

[personal profile] greenygal 2016-01-29 04:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Also, on the description given it's possible that she used the brother's name and beliefs to trick people into donating to a cause they don't support.
recessional: a photo image of feet in sparkly red shoes (Default)

[personal profile] recessional 2016-01-29 04:30 pm (UTC)(link)
I am honestly entirely with Prudence. As far as I'm concerned using the name and emotional weight of the dead to do something that person would have found abhorrent is an act of violent disrespect.

If someone did that to a twin I had just lost, I sure as fuck wouldn't talk to them again until they apologized.
delight: (Default)

[personal profile] delight 2016-01-29 05:49 pm (UTC)(link)
We are having issues with this right now in planning my dad's death; he wanted to tell people to donate to "a charity of their choice" in his name and we were concerned about people possibly doing that to a cause he didn't support ... the idea of someone doing it deliberately is horrible and I am making so many faces.

Prudence's point about her motives is well-put.
jadelennox: Oracle, shocked, saying "Uh... WHAT?" (oracle: what?)

[personal profile] jadelennox 2016-01-29 07:35 pm (UTC)(link)
My sister died last year, and we just said "donations to This Charity". Honestly, she would never have wanted anybody donating to certain causes, and so nobody should do it in her name. If we had even found out that somebody had given to a crisis pregnancy center and put her name down as "In Memory of [personal profile] jadelennox's Sister", we probably never would have spoken to that person again. Actually doing a fundraising effort is a whole different level of disgusting.

In other cases I've seen people say "donations to This Charity or [and then they pick an innocuous cause that people are not likely to be opposed to, like "your neighborhood animal shelter"]".

But asking for donations in the name of the person who is dead in order to give to something they actively disliked is kind of vile. If you disagreed with your brother about abortion, then ask for donations to give to the local homeless shelter. The ballet. Doctors without Borders. The two of you must have agreed on something, LW's sister!

Seriously, I'd cut that person out of my life so fucking hard. And I would be honest with everyone who asked me why, as well.

in the case of your dad, I guess it's a trickier issue, because it is respecting his wishes and all. But, I totally see your point.
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2016-01-29 08:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Not okay, sure - but "never speaking to her again" seems rather over the top to me.
ellen_fremedon: overlapping pages from Beowulf manuscript, one with a large rubric, on a maroon ground (Default)

[personal profile] ellen_fremedon 2016-01-29 08:20 pm (UTC)(link)
What about not speaking to her until she makes a good apology for her behavior?
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2016-01-29 08:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Not speaking to someone honestly seems rather over the top except in situations of abuse or similar. It comes across as... high-schoolish.
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2016-01-29 09:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Interesting. I found it really freeing when I decided that I was allowed to not talk to people who had done something hurtful, not as a punishment for them but as protection for myself, and I think what the LW's sister has done is very hurtful. Maybe not Forever, but I don't think LW would be wrong for not dealing with Sister for a calendar year or so.

After all, otherwise, every time they interact will have the specter of this disagreement hanging over it. LW's choices may be to reenact this fight every time or to grit their teeth as Sister preens about how much she raised for her noxious charity, and given those choices I think it makes sense for LW to preserve their own mental health by not talking to Sister.
ellen_fremedon: overlapping pages from Beowulf manuscript, one with a large rubric, on a maroon ground (Default)

[personal profile] ellen_fremedon 2016-01-29 09:43 pm (UTC)(link)
...you know, it honestly never occurred to me that they might live close together and expect to see each other in person often. My (apparently pretty strong) default expectation is that adults live far from family of origin. I'd been thinking of 'not speaking' as not picking up the phone and unfollowing their social media.

Though now that I think about it, I would give the same advice even if the sister lives on the same block. If anything is worth giving the cut direct, it's this.
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2016-01-29 09:49 pm (UTC)(link)
My (apparently pretty strong) default expectation is that adults live far from family of origin.

Good point. I'm Australian, and my default is the other way: most of us continue to live with our parents throughout uni, and then get jobs in the same town.
delight: (Default)

[personal profile] delight 2016-01-30 01:45 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, this is interesting to me. Despite the fact that at 27 I live in the city I grew up in, and am currently residing with my parents (and my spouse, it's crowded) because one of them is terminally ill and I do his daily care, I still never think that anyone stays living near their family because nobody else in my family did and I came back from ten years at a substantial distance about a month ago.

(Also "the city I grew up in" has eight million people and is enormous so it's definitely not the same thing as living in the same small town you grew up in, which never occurs to me despite the fact I know people do it. Cultural assumptions!)
amadi: A bouquet of dark purple roses (Default)

[personal profile] amadi 2016-01-30 12:35 am (UTC)(link)
I think toxic selfishness is often enough a precursor to abuse that it's worthy of an excision. We shouldn't have to wait until we're abused to cut harmful people out of our lives. And in this particular case, the money this woman raised via lying about their dead brothers' intentions is going to do real harm to countless people. I wouldn't let her anywhere near me.

recessional: a photo image of feet in sparkly red shoes (Default)

[personal profile] recessional 2016-01-31 11:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Honestly for me this is an act of emotional violence in and of itself; for various reasons that include faith, this level of dishonouring and disrespecting the wishes of the dead is utterly fucking egregious, to me. And unbelievably selfish.

(And I would absolutely feel the same way if the political positions were flipped - had he been anti-choice and she donated to an actively pro-choice charity.)

Grief makes some people behave really badly, and that's something I keep in mind . . . when they come to apologize for it later. Sans apology, I don't really have any obligation to keep that kind of person in my life, even if they are blood family.
neotoma: Lego Vader facepalms (Vader Facepalm)

[personal profile] neotoma 2016-01-29 08:32 pm (UTC)(link)
It's not just the sister donated in memory of the dead brother, it's that she apparently used his name for fundraising -- which means other people donated in his name as well.

And some of them may have thought they were donating for a cause he supported, so it's an entire chain of people donating to a cause the deceased was against. It's like some cascade of vileness.
recessional: a photo image of feet in sparkly red shoes (Default)

[personal profile] recessional 2016-01-31 11:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Thiiiis so much this. Like, donating privately in his name is still not okay, and I would still think his twin has every right to feel like their sister just spat on the memory of his brother.

But using the name of the dead as an emotional button to cause OTHER PEOPLE to donate money is just . . . fuck off.