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Two letters to Amy with missing missing reasons
Dear Amy: I am a woman in my 70s. I do not understand why women in their 30s think they can treat their elders with disrespect.
I had two unkind mothers-in-law but I wouldn’t have dreamed of being rude to them or “telling them off” because they were my elders — the mothers of my husbands, and the grandmothers of my children and grandchildren.
I was taught to show respect to elders and, unless someone was abusive to me or others, to allow other elders to correct the children, if needed.
Is this a generational thing, that young family members can be rude to us, take offense about petty issues, and ignore or refuse to speak to us even after we have apologized for the smallest “offense”?
I have several friends who are experiencing the same issues with their daughters-in-law.
We are kind and compassionate elders who are not unreasonable, demanding, or mean. We are not difficult people, having lived long lives of being respectful to co-workers, family members, friends, neighbors and strangers. We are the first to acknowledge our flaws and apologize.
I have taught women’s classes on assertiveness in my profession, but this is not assertiveness. It is aggression.
I’d appreciate your thoughts.
– Disrespected
Dear Disrespected: I do think you’re onto something regarding tension between millennials and boomers. It certainly surfaced during the pandemic, when (by my observation) millennials sought to control their parents, who – in their opinion – were not taking risks to themselves and others seriously enough.
I have been surprised both by the selfishness displayed by the elders, as well as the controlling and rude reactions of the youngers.
Both sides justify their behavior, and neither admits that they should perhaps behave differently.
However, both of your mothers-in-law were unkind. You consider it a badge of honor that you tolerated their mistreatment. Where is the glory in that?
Your female relatives in their 30s feel personal pressure to be all things to all people (their children, parents, partners, supervisors). Their worries and anxieties are often global in nature, reflecting frustration with elders who they believe deny the realities of climate change, racism, or a global pandemic.
So yes – they are fed up, and they’re not going to take it anymore. And yes, they are mistaking rudeness and aggression for assertion.
However, as women who have fought to have their voices heard, sometimes their voices are louder than necessary, or louder than you would like.
And – until the pendulum swings back again — that’s just the way it goes.
My recommendation for you is to try to engage in honest dialogue and continue to behave respectfully because that is who you are.
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/askamy/s-2552180?fs
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Dear Amy: I have been trying to figure out how to deal with family members that decide to cut off all communication with me without explanation.
One episode happened with my niece, who is in her 30s.
The last thing I said to her was, "Would you like to come over to visit?"
Her response was, "Why do people keep trying to make me do things that I don't want to do?" And that was the last time she talked to me.
She blocked me from her social media and hasn't responded to any text message or phone calls.
It has been almost three years.
Just a few months ago my youngest sister out of nowhere cut me off from her social media.
I asked her why and she said, "I don't want to share my life with you right now."
I asked what I did or said and she said, "I'm asking for some space."
It has been almost four months since that happened.
I've asked my other sister and our mother what I did, and they’ve responded that they don't know.
This sister recently traveled to our area and when she was visiting with my mother she wouldn't allow me, my husband or any of our children to go over to my mother's house.
My mother allowed her to take this control.
My children were upset that they weren't allowed to visit their grandmother.
I still have no idea what I did that caused any of this.
My little sister still talks to our two other sisters.
This is really hard for me because I'm 20 years older than this sister and I was like a second mom to her. I did so much for her growing up. Up until recently we were close, or so I thought.
What did I do?
– In the Dark
Dear In the Dark: Insisting on distance when there is discomfort (or conflict) seems to be built in to the basic emotional operating system for some families.
In your family’s case, your mother’s choice to give in to your sister’s control over who visits her own household speaks volumes.
The passive-aggressive silencing technique and avoidance might extend back into previous generations.
You are obviously bugging these younger family members, and my instinct is that if you are substantially older than they are, and if you see yourself as a mother figure to them, you are most likely weighing in on their choices and intruding on social media, where the tone of a comment or reply can easily be misunderstood.
This is – at best – uncool. At worst, it is intrusive and embarrassing.
Your sister has asked for “some space,” and you should respect her request and give her space.
And because your family members are both volatile and avoidant, you should review your own tone on social media and elsewhere and consider doing things differently.
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/askamy/s-2549321?fs
I had two unkind mothers-in-law but I wouldn’t have dreamed of being rude to them or “telling them off” because they were my elders — the mothers of my husbands, and the grandmothers of my children and grandchildren.
I was taught to show respect to elders and, unless someone was abusive to me or others, to allow other elders to correct the children, if needed.
Is this a generational thing, that young family members can be rude to us, take offense about petty issues, and ignore or refuse to speak to us even after we have apologized for the smallest “offense”?
I have several friends who are experiencing the same issues with their daughters-in-law.
We are kind and compassionate elders who are not unreasonable, demanding, or mean. We are not difficult people, having lived long lives of being respectful to co-workers, family members, friends, neighbors and strangers. We are the first to acknowledge our flaws and apologize.
I have taught women’s classes on assertiveness in my profession, but this is not assertiveness. It is aggression.
I’d appreciate your thoughts.
– Disrespected
Dear Disrespected: I do think you’re onto something regarding tension between millennials and boomers. It certainly surfaced during the pandemic, when (by my observation) millennials sought to control their parents, who – in their opinion – were not taking risks to themselves and others seriously enough.
I have been surprised both by the selfishness displayed by the elders, as well as the controlling and rude reactions of the youngers.
Both sides justify their behavior, and neither admits that they should perhaps behave differently.
However, both of your mothers-in-law were unkind. You consider it a badge of honor that you tolerated their mistreatment. Where is the glory in that?
Your female relatives in their 30s feel personal pressure to be all things to all people (their children, parents, partners, supervisors). Their worries and anxieties are often global in nature, reflecting frustration with elders who they believe deny the realities of climate change, racism, or a global pandemic.
So yes – they are fed up, and they’re not going to take it anymore. And yes, they are mistaking rudeness and aggression for assertion.
However, as women who have fought to have their voices heard, sometimes their voices are louder than necessary, or louder than you would like.
And – until the pendulum swings back again — that’s just the way it goes.
My recommendation for you is to try to engage in honest dialogue and continue to behave respectfully because that is who you are.
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/askamy/s-2552180?fs
Dear Amy: I have been trying to figure out how to deal with family members that decide to cut off all communication with me without explanation.
One episode happened with my niece, who is in her 30s.
The last thing I said to her was, "Would you like to come over to visit?"
Her response was, "Why do people keep trying to make me do things that I don't want to do?" And that was the last time she talked to me.
She blocked me from her social media and hasn't responded to any text message or phone calls.
It has been almost three years.
Just a few months ago my youngest sister out of nowhere cut me off from her social media.
I asked her why and she said, "I don't want to share my life with you right now."
I asked what I did or said and she said, "I'm asking for some space."
It has been almost four months since that happened.
I've asked my other sister and our mother what I did, and they’ve responded that they don't know.
This sister recently traveled to our area and when she was visiting with my mother she wouldn't allow me, my husband or any of our children to go over to my mother's house.
My mother allowed her to take this control.
My children were upset that they weren't allowed to visit their grandmother.
I still have no idea what I did that caused any of this.
My little sister still talks to our two other sisters.
This is really hard for me because I'm 20 years older than this sister and I was like a second mom to her. I did so much for her growing up. Up until recently we were close, or so I thought.
What did I do?
– In the Dark
Dear In the Dark: Insisting on distance when there is discomfort (or conflict) seems to be built in to the basic emotional operating system for some families.
In your family’s case, your mother’s choice to give in to your sister’s control over who visits her own household speaks volumes.
The passive-aggressive silencing technique and avoidance might extend back into previous generations.
You are obviously bugging these younger family members, and my instinct is that if you are substantially older than they are, and if you see yourself as a mother figure to them, you are most likely weighing in on their choices and intruding on social media, where the tone of a comment or reply can easily be misunderstood.
This is – at best – uncool. At worst, it is intrusive and embarrassing.
Your sister has asked for “some space,” and you should respect her request and give her space.
And because your family members are both volatile and avoidant, you should review your own tone on social media and elsewhere and consider doing things differently.
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/askamy/s-2549321?fs
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2. It's possible for one family member to cut another off with little to no explanation, though it's more likely that the estrangee just didn't like the explanation. It's less likely that two family members will do the same thing, and unless this niece is Younger Sister's Daughter, I think the evidence is pretty clear that the only constant in the equation is LW. Instead of asking why people think it's okay to cut others off, maybe LW should be asking why people don't like her.
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20:1 odds it’s this one.
2. Amy’s guess that she’s an overbearing “second mom” is probably a good one. There was very likely a good amount of “butt out!” before the “sudden” cutoff.
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Oh, huh, interesting. I read LW as being annoyed that they were called out for an -ism. Racism, sexism, transphobia, something -- and not just general bigotry, but in front of an individual for whom it was personal.
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"please don't do unannounced and/or maskless drop bys during COVID times - we need you to schedule visits with us in advance and wear a face mask"
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LW2: Simply put, there is is one common denominator in your situation: you. Think on that.
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Though I *actually* got an apology from him, because he finally realized that all his childhood advice (orders) really had nothing in common with who I am. Pity I only had a Dad from 26 to 35, a year after my mom's passing.
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eg please don't drive drunk
please don't go to a massive unventilated crowded indoor event with no mask and no vaccine during COVID...
please don't inject yourself with bleach thinking that it will protect/cure COVID...
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Standards for behavior do change with time. My grandparents, as children in the Netherlands, were not allowed to use third-person pronouns to refer to their elders (!). These differences may come out in a conflict but are rarely the source, and that's what I suspect is happening here.
LW1 has avoided any mention of the actual source of the conflict. That was probably intentional.
Letter 2: Based on my own family history, I am more sympathetic to people suffering estrangement than many commenters here. I do not default to believing the person cutting off contact is enforcing reasonable boundaries and the person being cut off deserves it. However, in this case, at least two family members have cut off LW2. Since LW2 is the common factor, I'm inclined to believe she is the problem.
LW2, you should look inward; but if you really don't know what you're doing wrong, talk to your mother. Her acquiescence to your sister's request to help maintain the estrangement while at your mother's house suggests your mother has more than an inkling what's going on.
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2: LW comes across as the kind of person who wants constant updates on everyone else's life and can't quite understand that many people would like some privacy, thanks. I can very easily see how someone might just push LW out of their life rather than put up with that behavior.
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Sorry, had to come back to this. I have recently gone none-but-the-most-absolutely-necessary contact with two of my siblings. My mother knows I don't want to see them, and she has a glimmering of why (although I have not told her how bad it got). I'm not sure my siblings actually know this. Strike that - I know my older brother doesn't.
I would never tell my mother who she could and could not have at her house. However, before out most recent visit, spouse and I made plans to leave the house if one of said siblings came over, and remain gone until they had left.
The fact that LW's mother went along with sister's demands makes me wonder if mother knows something LW does not.