agonyaunt | Dear Prudence: Help! Our Stepchildren Dated and Had a Nasty Breakup. N

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Dear Prudence: Help! Our Stepchildren Dated and Had a Nasty Breakup. N

Now my daughter refuses to come to family gatherings.

I remarried three years ago. We both have college-age children. My daughter Annie got involved with my stepson Jaime. My husband and I were deeply uncomfortable with this relationship, but were soundly told it was none of our business and they were adults. The relationship ended up going south in a spectacular display where Annie drunkenly accused Jaime of flirting with a mutual friend at a family party. Jaime broke up with her on the spot.

I had hoped the bruised egos would heal, but Annie is holding a grudge nearly two years later. She refuses to visit if Jaime is here even for the holidays. The problem is Jaime has moved in after a car wreck and probably will be living with my husband and me for the near future.
Annie thinks that the solution is for me and her sisters to visit her in the tiny house she rents with her friends. I told Annie that is not a long-term solution and can she just manage to be polite to Jaime for the few times she sees him?

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Annie told me I was being unfair, and I should be in her corner first and foremost. I told Annie I loved her but she was acting childish. Her romantic shenanigans should not dictate the rest of the family nor my marriage. Annie has been distant and uncommunicative since. Jaime has apologized to me personally, and my husband thinks Annie is being a brat. Her sisters think so as well, and this is why I was against the relationship in the first place! How do I deal with my daughter?

—Mom at the Crossroads

Dear Mom,

It’s never a good idea to date your stepsibling, but that ship has sailed. I agree that this is her fault (and Jaime’s), but I still feel sorry for her. She’s not the first person to make a bad romantic decision, and breakups and betrayals are really hard. I think you should go visit her at her place, at least this once. And I’m not even just saying that because of this disaster. You’re her mom, you just got into this new relationship relatively recently (and your husband doesn’t sound like he’s particularly warm to her), so she could probably use some time with just you and her sisters and not these men who have only recently popped up in her life. No, it’s not a long-term solution, but heartbreak isn’t a long-term thing. She’ll move on and get over Jamie before long. Until she does, offer her some extra kindness.

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It’s been two years, Annie. Try again.

HA. See the advice was so bad I was wrong about who wrote it.

Oh interesting. I largely agreed with the advice -- may I ask what you disagreed with (for educational purposes only)?

The angle of the advice seems to be “Go easy on her, it just happened ,” and I feel like that misses that it happened two years ago — which is a lot longer as an adult than it is as a college student, but I think the young people must have been apart now longer than they were together, and Annie is controlling everyone else by refusing to move on.

Mind you there’s a lot not said in the letter. I can be convinced Annie is more right than I think she is now — but this column hasn’t done that.

Annie isn't controlling anyone, though. She's just not visiting their house - the house where, according to LW, everyone thinks she's a "brat" and has assigned her all of the blame for the mess of the ex-relationship. What a fun homey place to spend one's holidays!

You know who gives me manipulative vibes? Jaime, who has made sure everyone knows the breakup was entirely Annie's fault (so irrational and drunk!) and not his at all, who has deployed LW as his flying monkey to tell Annie that (because he apologized to *LW* and LW thinks he's a nice boy who has done no wrong), Annie's feelings are invalid and childish and she is barred from her mother's home and presence unless she accepts their rewrite of her reality (in which she is wrong and bratty and makes bad decisions and has no right to any social boundaries).

ETA for prematurely hitting "send"

My sympathy for LW and Jamie is predicated on their both being truthful. But if they are being truthful -- I don't think accusing someone in public of flirting with someone else is a good look, nor is being mad about the subsequent breakup two years later, nor is wanting someone to not be helped by his parent while he recuperates from a car wreck. I mean, a car wreck can seriously mess someone up!

(Also, man, I wish I ever in my life got to have my valid feelings about something if someone else disagrees with those feelings existing.)

And if I were Jamie I would apologize to LW for my part in the estrangement, not to be manipulative but because I would feel that I was part of causing a disagreement between LW and Annie and that therefore I had been wrong.

I mean, what else could LW do, throw half-recuperated Jamie out of her house onto his crutches? I definitely think LW should go visit Annie in her house, and should not be scolding Annie (they could agree to disagree and not talk about Jamie and his father, for instance), but if Annie behaved as described I don't think LW is wrong to disapprove of that behavior.

(My opinion is predicated entirely on the presumption that LW and Jamie are being truthful.)

Edited 2021-07-09 18:29 (UTC)

The thing is, even according to LW's extremely biased and anti-Annie account, Annie hasn't *asked* for anyone to cast Jaime out or not help him after a car crash or not treat him as family or basically... anything except for her mom to visit her, because she doesn't want to visit the house where he lives.

The absolute worst recent thing LW can accuse Annie of is being "distant and uncommunicative" which... is a very reasonable thing to be if LW is telling the truth about Annie's mom, stepdad, and sisters all uniting to call her bratty and unreasonable and siding with her ex.

It seems like the relationship was a trainwreck, and it's quite possible that Annie was the bigger asshole in the breakup. IDK! But it really struck me in the letter how aggressively blamey LW is toward her daughter, and how Jaime is portrayed as a perfect innocent - like, he ALSO was a participant in the ill-advised stepsibling relationship, but LW reserves every ounce of "I told you so!" energy for talking about her daughter. And the "he apologized to *me* so *I* have decided your grudge is no longer valid and you need to get over it" gives me major, major creeps. Maybe he's sincere about that but LW should not be using it as leverage against her daughter.

Basically I agree that LW should visit and not talk about any of this with Annie, and rebuild their relationship based on what they actually like about each other. I think Annie is being the mature one here, by saying "this is my boundary" and then leaving it to LW to make up her mind. Lots of parents who write advice letters talk about their kids being "distant" as if this is a betrayal instead of the natural result of every conversation being "you should live the life and have the feelings that I tell you to!" and that's the vibe I'm getting here.

But of course these letters leave a lot out, and there are a lot of possibilities for what actually happened and who did what to whom. We bring our own stuff to interpreting them and it's definitely part of my baggage to hear alarm bells re: scapegoating and gaslighting a family member as the "irrational, childish" one who should just "get over it." It's possible Annie really is being an ass! Though in that case I still think LW should shut up about trying to get her to visit the House of People Who Think She Sucks, Because Faaaaamily.

*reads* *nods thoughtfully*

We bring our own stuff to interpreting them and it's definitely part of my baggage to hear alarm bells re: scapegoating and gaslighting a family member as the "irrational, childish" one who should just "get over it."

There is that. Whereas part of my reaction is "for once a family that didn't say 'my family member is entirely entitled to treat you like absolute crap and you are entirely wrong to object' --" and neither of us is wrong, we both have history we're referencing.

Though in that case I still think LW should shut up about trying to get her to visit the House of People Who Think She Sucks, Because Faaaaamily.

Yeah, I think everyone agrees on that (Because Faaamly, very rarely a good reason) and hopefully LW will do so.

Basically I agree that LW should visit and not talk about any of this with Annie, and rebuild their relationship based on what they actually like about each other. I think Annie is being the mature one here, by saying "this is my boundary" and then leaving it to LW to make up her mind. …
It's possible Annie really is being an ass! Though in that case I still think LW should shut up about trying to get her to visit the House of People Who Think She Sucks, Because Faaaaamily.

Yup, yup, yup. Annie might have legitimate beef with Jaime. Jaime has legitimate reason to be staying at the parental home. But no matter what, LW is cutting off her daughter by not being willing to visit her at her house. What kind of mother does that?

I really hope that in a couple of years Annie turns to her mother and says, "remember when I was being ridiculous and refusing to visit? Thank you for putting up with me until I could put my brain back in my head." As the story is written I think she's being ridiculous, but you know me and my distaste for jealousy. (and I appreciate that the reason for the breakup was given so we don't have to endlessly speculate. My response would be totally different if they broke up because Jamie broke Annie's jaw and three ribs, for instance.)

One reason I don't quite see, though, is why beyond Annie's house being "tiny" it would be so onerous to visit her there. Yes, she's being ridiculous, but not disownment-worthy ridiculous, so just go visit her at her home, LW, and I hope none of your children are ever quite so dramatic ever again.

Oh see I agree with you. Maybe I just got hung up on the representation of the timing.

Heh. :)

I think it has more to do with it being tiny AND shared than just tiny alone - Mom probably doesn't want to intrude on the roommates' ability to enjoy their home, we don't know how old the sisters are, etc. When I was 21 and moved out, my little sisters were 11 and 13 - I don't think I would have been inviting them as guests if I lived with roommates!

Enh, as someone who's had roommates since I was 13, I think letting my roommates see their family for a few hours is fine. Honeslty I've had to deal with guests staying for weeks or more, so someone sitting in the living room with her mom for 3 hours doesn't sound at all bad to me.

My position on this varies based on whether the tiny house is within a short day trip, or would need to be overnight.

Day trip: suck it up and visit.

Overnight: book a hotel and visit.

The way it was phrased, I was assuming that they live far enough apart that it would require an overnight stay (otherwise, why not have the LW/sisters/Annie meetup at a neutral nearby location... although the pandemic affects their ability to, say, go to a restaurant.)

Solution: LW and sisters get a hotel room, rather than trying to cram multiple houseguests into a small, shared space.

Edited 2021-07-09 20:15 (UTC)

LW got married three years ago and her daughter in very short order (inside a year) started dating her new stepbrother, then broke up?

There may be more here than the stepbrother problem. LW could offer to pay for counseling for Annie and LW needs to work on that relationship no matter what, because "get over it and also your house is not worthy of me" is a very ugly look.

See, I admire Annie because I *hate* having family in my house.

That aside -- While I get that Family Holiday Stuff is important, LW, she still wants to *see* you. So sure, you can absolutely miss her presence at your house. Hell, even tell her so, but suck it up for awhile, deal with the tiny house, and maybe life will even out after awhile.

And certainly, she doesn't get to dictate your relationship with your husband or the rest of the family, but she *isn't*. She's just reducing the variables a bit. Nothin' wrong with that.

(Mind you, she could probably benefit from a bit of therapy, but I suspect there was more to the breakup than just the public fight.)

Edited 2021-07-09 16:58 (UTC)

I think LW going "all interactions you ever have with me again Must include these two men you don't want in your life, who I have decided are more important than you are and to whom you must Make Nice, and if you object to this you are a bad irrational childish person and I won't visit you" is extremely poor mom behavior and I am not here for it.

I don't know why Annie doesn't want to be in the same room with Jaime, but given LW's pattern of minimizing and dismissing ("bruised egos," "holding a grudge," "childish," "romantic shenanigans" plus lots of blamey "I told you so" language), I would bet there's a lot more to it than LW is willing to acknowledge or accept. Also it is fucked up to make parental affection and respect dependent on Performing Socially exactly the way the parent wants.

Guess what, LW? Continue on this path and dealing with your daughter will no longer be your problem! Even if it is "just" a heartbreak that she "gets over" at some point, she probably won't get over her mom not being on her side or even willing to hear her out.

This.

Also it doesn't matter if it's "just" a bruised ego or she's childish or whatever. They're still her feelings and she's feeling them and she's an adult who's allowed to not visit her mom if she doesn't want to meet someone her mom has at her house! Saying "You should visit me, but I won't be visiting you while X is the case" is completely legit and if the mom doesn't see her on that condition, it's on her. Not to mention that it's hardly fair to just expect the daughter to always do all the visiting forever anyway if the mom isn't willing to visit her back.

Yeah, you nailed it.

Saying, "you have to come to me; I will not come to you," puts a pretty big strain on a relationship. It is justified in some cases, but I don't buy that it's a reasonable boundary irrespective of the reason for it. I think we're getting a pretty biased perspective from LW, so I'm not going to judge whether Annie's demand is justified, but I will say that she's making a big ask of LW.

LW is saying the exact same thing though, you have to come to me because I won't go to you - tbh what really struck me wrong in this letter is LW saying that visiting her daughter in her house (which is probably her first house as an independent adult! That's a huge thing!) is "untenable". Like, leaving all the stuff with the breakup aside, if I'd invited my mom to visit me in my first home for the holidays and her response was "clearly you will understand that me visiting you in your tiny ~~hovel~~ house with your ~~nasty friends~~ roommates is not a solution" I would be upset just for that.

But I think there is a big difference if we're talking about something that requires a multi-day visit vs. coming over for dinner, but it's a big difference both ways - "spend the week sleeping on an air mattress in the shared space" is something that might actually be untenable compared to an afternoon, but so is "spend the week sharing a room with your ex after a bad breakup". (And the solution there is for Mom who has such a nice house and such a nice life to pay for a hotel room near daughter.)

Good point.

Indeeeeeed. Especially true that a) your daughter still wants to see you, and is offering solutions, LW!, and b) hotels exist. (on both ends of the equation; either Mom can put up her daugher, or she can stay in a hotel while visiting daughter.)

Can't they just go out to lunch at a restaurant or go to a park or something and set aside this whose house business?

Yeah, really. I do think LW is not giving sufficient reason (probably because there isn't any beyond TRADITIOOOOON) for the "my house or nowhere" policy and I hope the columnist convinced her to change her mind.

I feel like, "My ex with whom I had an incredibly awkward drunken breakup in front of my whole family lives at your house, Mom, and it's super weird for me, can't we just go to Denny's?" isn't that hard to understand.

Edited 2021-07-10 04:14 (UTC)

I am pretty much never on the side of the person who calls another adult "a brat". I don't care who's in the right, once that word pops up I'm just done.

With that said, LW can't force Annie to come visit at her house. So if she wants to see her daughter, she's gonna have to suck it up and deal.

Furthermore, I'm at least 87% convinced that the messy public fight and breakup is leaving out a LOT of crucial detail about who said and did what with and to whom, and that if we had that detail we'd have a clearer image over this "childish grudge".

I'm at least 87% convinced that the messy public fight and
breakup is leaving out a LOT of crucial detail about who said and did what with and to whom, and that if we had that detail we'd have a clearer image over this "childish grudge".

Yeah, this is a good point. I may have let myself be seduced by an actual Given Reason into not properly considering that there may well be Missing Reasons still.

If nothing else, the question asks itself: Was he blatantly flirting in front of her, and was this an ongoing issue in their relationship?

I think part of my reaction to the accusation of flirting is (as

kiezh wisely pointed out, my particualr history/personal context) my dislike of the idea that being in a relationship means one is not allowed to talk to any other "eligible" people anymore. There's flirting and flirting, and describing the difference between witty banter and implicit denial that one has an SO could take paragraphs and paragraphs.

True, and fair. What a pity LW doesn't give us enough information to know what the hell went down.

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