agonyaunt | (no subject)

Q. Conflicted Christmas: My daughter and I are estranged, but up until now, l have managed to keep up a relationship with my grandchildren (ages 10, 14, 16). A month ago, my 16-year-old granddaughter stopped speaking to me over a misunderstanding, which she refuses to even talk about. I’ve reached out to her several times but she refuses to even acknowledge me. I’m disappointed and sad that she seems to be following in her mom’s footsteps. I still communicate with the other two grandchildren who tell me they love me, etc.

My question is regarding Christmas. I would like to give the younger ones gifts, but I’m not sure what to do about the one not speaking to me. On one hand, l feel that she certainly doesn’t deserve my consideration, and at 16, she’s old enough to learn that her actions have consequences. And if l send a gift, I’m teaching her that she can continue to take me for granted. On the other hand, it’s Christmas and she’s still a child trying to deal with her extremely dysfunctional mother, and l should give in in the spirit of the season and to let her know l still love her. I also don’t want to appear manipulative by giving to her siblings and “punishing” her. Advice?

A: My kingdom for details on this “misunderstanding”! I think you’re right not to want to look like you’re punishing your granddaughter for behaving (or misbehaving, as the case may be—sure wish I knew those details!) like a teenager. So … don’t punish her! This includes not saying things like “you don’t deserve my consideration” when she gets angry with you or stops talking to you, even if you don’t think her reason for not wanting to talk to you is good enough. Whatever that reason may be, it’s clearly pretty important to her—I’m inclined to doubt she would characterize this conflict as “My grandmother and I had a misunderstanding, so I’ve decided never to talk to her again,” so I’d encourage you to rethink how you describe this situation. You might try on “Once my relatives are old enough to make such decisions for themselves, a lot of them choose to stop talking to me, while on my part I remain purposely vague on what led up to those choices” instead of “My daughter is estranged from me for [reason not given], and her eldest child is mysteriously choosing to follow in her footsteps over a vague misunderstanding.”

In the short term: Why not send over a gift the whole family can use, like a gift certificate or a dessert tray (or Google “gifts for the whole family” and scroll through the results until you find something that seems affordable and applicable)?

https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/11/i-hate-my-wifes-cooking-dear-prudence-advice.html

From downthread:

Q. Re: Conflicted Christmas: As someone estranged from a parent who for a long time persisted in calling, emailing, and sending me packages even after I cut ties, I would just point out that receiving gifts from people you have expressed a desire to not hear from can be very triggering and painful. I think if the younger grandkids express positive appreciation of the contact with the grandmom, she can continue sending them gifts, but she should respect the need for space that her daughter and granddaughter have expressed.

A: That’s a good point, and one I hadn’t considered in my original answer. I’m not sure I trust the letter writer’s ability to accurately review her own behavior, but if she has a history of either withholding or strategically choosing gifts in order to extract compliance or agreement from her relatives, it might be better to not send her eldest granddaughter a gift at all.

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I, too, would just love to find out more about this "misunderstanding".

On one hand, l feel that she certainly doesn’t deserve my consideration, and at 16, she’s old enough to learn that her actions have consequences. And if l send a gift, I’m teaching her that she can continue to take me for granted.

This reasoning here, that's why LW's gonna die alone.

Isn't it funny how LWs like this carefully omit those Missing Reasons, and yet somehow the shape of the reasons comes through anyway?

We don't know what the specific events were, but we can feel the judgmental contempt radiating off the letter, and see all those assumptions about affection being transactional/conditional. Not to mention the insistence that LW knows that someone they are not in contact with is "extremely dysfunctional," with no evidence for that given other than "she doesn't want to talk to me."

Anyway, yeah, if this pattern continues LW is going to systemically alienate all of their descendents (and then whine about how ungrateful and undeserving they are).

It's "actions have consequences" that gets me, because that's sheer gaslighting and projection. Grandma could stand to learn that lesson, and she never will. Whatever she did or said, it wasn't a misunderstanding and she damn well knows it.

all those assumptions about affection being transactional/conditional

Heaven forfend you get a present just because!

Not to mention the insistence that LW knows that someone they are not in contact with is "extremely dysfunctional," with no evidence for that given other than "she doesn't want to talk to me."

For some bizarre reason, her daughter is allowing her to have access to the grandkids. I'm not sure if this is proof that Daughter's relationship with the kids *is* dysfunctional or proof that it *isn't*, but there you go.

It's everyone else's actions that have consequences! Hers are just emanations of Pure Righteousness, not choices for which she is accountable. :D

Obviously!

Plus the younger two kids who "still tell her they love her"

Am I the only one picking up transactionality there as well ? It gives the vibe that if they are not sufficiently performative to satisfy grandma then whatever "misunderstanding" alienated their older sister will also happen with them as well.

Yeah, that's definitely how I read that too. You fulfil Grandma's expectations (including performances of affection on call), or you get declared dysfunctional/undeserving/etc.

Sooner or later the younger kids will probably clash with her too, just by being Actual People and not grandchildren-puppets.

Sounds like a great year to mail each grandchild a gift certificate (of equal value) for something neutral and relatively generic. But given that this lady is (1) absolutely manipulative and (2) clearly knows it, I don't doubt she'll engage in some entirely useless pot-stirring instead.

I'm amazed her estranged daughter lets her have any contact with these kids at all.

I suspect we're somewhere on the "she just won't leave us alone" spectrum here.

Oooh, could be. Grandma has to meddle, it's not her fault, Daughter is just so dysfunctional. (You can tell, because she takes her poor martyred mother for granted.)

Sooooo happy to see an answer that centers Missing Reasons from the top. I wish all advice columnists would start calling LWs on their shit.