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Dear Prudence: I don't want to hang out with my husband.
Danny: This last one I just love. Super straightforward. Kind of great. Subject is: "I don’t want to hang out with my husband."
Dear Prudence, my husband works a highly unpredictable shift job. He can be called in at pretty much any hour of the day with one day’s notice, and his hours can vary from nine to seven or an overnight shift. On the other hand, I work a much more regular nine to five Monday through Friday. Lately, when my husband has unexpected bouts of free time during the day, like on a weekday afternoon, he pressures me to spend time with him. He says we should take advantage of the little free time during the week we have with each other. I definitely have slow times during the work day and it wouldn’t be out of the ordinary for me to take a few hours off to do my own thing. But Prudie, I don’t want to spend this time with my husband. My job requires a fair amount of extroversion, so when I have free time during the week, I prefer to recharge on my own. I find myself trying to come up with excuses for why I need to be out of the house during these times just so I don’t have to spend my free time with my husband, who happens to not be working.
Avery: Ohhhh.
Danny: His lack of-- *laughs* We're keeping that just because I’ve never--I’ve never had somebody just like sigh, in sadness when I'm reading a letter--
Avery: I'm sorry
Danny: And it’s really it’s really sweet. No, you’re, you have a very, very kind heart.
His lack of routine really grates on me. I’m definitely a creature of habit. I feel bad saying, "I know we never really have time off during the week together, but when we do, I don’t want to spend it with you." He is objectively correct that these overlaps don’t happen often, but unlike him, I don’t want to quote, "take advantage of them" by spending time together. What should we do?
Avery: Is it bad that like this just. Of all the murderer’s row of problems that you’ve lined up, this to me somehow feels like, not the saddest, like there’s no pain Olympics, but this is just indicative of a much larger, sadder, untouchable thing.
Danny: Yeah, I mean, I really I really get not liking somebody's unpredictable schedule. I am also a creature of habit. I also like a lot of time to myself, but I just don’t know what to say to someone who’s like, I don’t really like hanging out with my husband. Like, I don’t know how you solve that problem. It’s a problem like Maria.
Avery: Well, OK, so I was just reading Angela Chen’s book Ace, have you read it?
Danny: I have not.
Avery: So it’s really interesting because on its surface it’s about asexuality and ace sexual identity, ace sexual history, but it takes a fascinating turn into becoming really a tool kit for everyone to have more language around all different kinds of consent. To say like sometimes you don’t feel romantic, sometimes you don’t feel like having sex. Sometimes you don’t feel like spending time together. And all of these are fine. You know?None of these should be considered a problem. And I feel like. This almost reminds me of an extremely I mean, OK, so a huge part of her chapter in the end is she talks about people who don’t have sexual desire or don’t have much sexual desire in relationships with people who do, and this is a fairly common problem and that because society says that it is like the healthy and correct and right thing to do to want to have sex, like you have to be this way, that it is incumbent on the less desirous person to, like, meet those needs, which is the actual opposite of the way consent works when you’re not in a married relationship, you know, like it shouldn’t be incumbent on the person to provide that pleasure. And so I can almost see this playing out an even more asexual way here, because we’re told that, like, married couples love to spend all their time together, that like, you’re in the wrong, person. Writer. Like, you need to amend that and fix that. And I feel like this person, you know, common theme here: needs to go a little easy on themselves and understand that, like. this is OK and, like, I don’t know, I mean, part of me wonders if there could be some sort of structured boundary time or maybe their partner doesn’t know that they need that sort of introversion recharge time. But I feel like they’re not being vocal enough about what they need in this in this relationship.
Danny: Yeah, I think that can be useful. I hadn’t thought about applying a consent framework here, and, I’m not sure--I think I’ll let you do that, I like the idea of taking it from two different angles because part of me is just like, man, if you don’t want to hang out with your husband, like, I don’t know what to tell you. Like, do you like him? Like you say you already don’t see him that much. It doesn’t sound like he’s asking for you to, like, take him to the Crystal Palace or have sex all day so much as he’s just like, "you want to watch a movie or something?" and you’re like, no.
But if you two haven’t talked about the shift job yet and how much it affects, presumably both of you, maybe now’s the time. And to maybe talk about, like, both, what are ways in which I need to have some time during the week when I know if I have downtime at work, it’s mine to do with as I like and not subject to possibly you being free and then changing my plans. I really do get that. I think that’s fine to have a conversation about. I also think it’s not like it’s not fucked up that your husband’s like, "hey, I like hanging out with you". So I hope you can also just like. You know, don’t treat it as like someone awful is asking you to dance and you’re like, "Ugh, I just I wish you hadn’t even thought you could ask me. I don’t want to be rude, but like, ugh". I think it will also be fair if your husband’s like, yeah, my shift job is hard on me too. I also have a hard time dealing with the unpredictability, but it’s the only job I have. And sometimes I like to be around you. I hope you can also make some room to meet him halfway there.
And if you’re like, no, that sounds awful...Avery, as you were saying, maybe that’s a good chance to ask yourself like, do I want to change anything about our marriage? Do I like my husband? You don’t really go into that in the letter, letter writer, so I don’t want to speculate too far in either direction.
But I guess really all of this boils down to is you should talk about the elements of this that are difficult for you, you should try to come up with some sort of compromise where you both get something and you don’t treat either his desire to spend time together as a problem or your need to sometimes be alone as a bad thing. But yeah, if you don’t, you know, you never hang out. And he sometimes wants to hang out and you say no to that and you two never hang out and then you eventually grow distant...that might happen.
Avery: I just feel like this is a yeah, it’s true...I mean, this is true. The writer didn’t go into a lot of detail, but I think for people who are extremely extroverted, they don’t know that some people do need a lot of recharge time, you know, and they might take it personally. I--it sounds to me, knowing very little, that they’re both just a little mystified by each other in this way. And I think this could be bridged or I hope this could be bridged.
Danny: Yeah, yeah. And you know what? I also think that’s a good point, because I also just want to remind myself that, like, everybody is working under some of the most stressful conditions imaginable right now and have been since March. And that’s for people who are, like, able to continue working. So I also really get that part of what the letter writer is saying is not like I’m an introvert and therefore I’m entitled to like such and such accommodations every day or I get to call my union rep so much as like, work is really difficult, really stressful. And I now have to manage a lot of expectations, like from a distance remotely and while also seeming super cheerful.
Avery: Yeah.
Danny: And so if I get a break in the middle of the day, even my husband, who I love, like, I don’t want to fucking talk to anybody. I want to like, stare at a picture of a mountain and just like not exist for 20 minutes. And that makes a lot of sense to me. But just say what you do need and don’t frame it as like, "You’re asking for too much," just like, "Here’s what I need". And then also, hopefully you two will be able to find some time that you can spend together that you want to. And that would be ideal, if you spent some time with your partner, not all of your time, but some, and you mostly enjoyed it. And that’s just Danny Lavery's thoughts on marriage. Take it from me: I’m married.
Avery: It’s possible for creatures of habit. It can be done.
Danny: It can be done. And good luck. I also hope someday maybe he can get a--get promoted to a place where he gets to tell other people that they’re working a shift of unreasonable hours. That’s not ideal either. But at least...I don’t know. I hope no one ever has to work ever again.
Avery: Seriously
Danny: How are you doing? Speaking of work and exhaustion and managing things remotely, you’ve been great. You’ve been hanging out of closet this whole time.
Avery: Oh, man.
Danny: Recording under a tarp.
Avery: It’s it’s really been--it’s really been a pleasure. I mean, it’s kind of fascinating to see where people are. We’re all--I feel like the pandemic has reduced us all to our own individual sitcoms. We all have like a rotating cast of like five characters and it all takes place in one room. And this is all just like stranger than fiction. It’s kind of incredible what’s playing out. How are you holding up?
Danny: I would say conservatively now, ever since I learned that, I actually really, really like those kinds of headphones that just stick in your ear and don’t have cords. I previously thought they were goofy. And then I tried them and I was like, oh, my God, I feel peace. I would say I spend, hm, a third of every day just listening to those, like ambient YouTube channels that are just like forest beats, just like the sound of a stream and some birds and then like a drum and then like one pan flute. And it’s just like, fuck yes, and I just---
Avery: Oh yeah, when that pan flute drops
Danny:--live my life in like an Atlantis ambient sound soundscape. And that’s how I’m getting through. That’s how I’m doing it.
Avery: That’s your general advice to all of these people, correct?
Danny: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. If your husband wants to hang out and be like "can my airpods come?" and listen to Atlantic music and then just like nod and look happy.
Avery: Yeah, totally.
Danny: Absolutely. Whatever gets you through the day. Avery, thank you so, so, so much. Please do have me back on any time to talk about Lilith and any of the places that she lived on the series run, either of Cheers or Frasier.
Avery: Thank you very much for your expertise on specifically Cheers, I really appreciate the offer.
Danny: Today was really thorny and I really, really appreciated your thoughtfulness and your warmth. It was sorely needed.
Avery: I don’t know how you do this.
Danny: [indecipherable]
Edited from transcript.
Dear Prudence, my husband works a highly unpredictable shift job. He can be called in at pretty much any hour of the day with one day’s notice, and his hours can vary from nine to seven or an overnight shift. On the other hand, I work a much more regular nine to five Monday through Friday. Lately, when my husband has unexpected bouts of free time during the day, like on a weekday afternoon, he pressures me to spend time with him. He says we should take advantage of the little free time during the week we have with each other. I definitely have slow times during the work day and it wouldn’t be out of the ordinary for me to take a few hours off to do my own thing. But Prudie, I don’t want to spend this time with my husband. My job requires a fair amount of extroversion, so when I have free time during the week, I prefer to recharge on my own. I find myself trying to come up with excuses for why I need to be out of the house during these times just so I don’t have to spend my free time with my husband, who happens to not be working.
Avery: Ohhhh.
Danny: His lack of-- *laughs* We're keeping that just because I’ve never--I’ve never had somebody just like sigh, in sadness when I'm reading a letter--
Avery: I'm sorry
Danny: And it’s really it’s really sweet. No, you’re, you have a very, very kind heart.
His lack of routine really grates on me. I’m definitely a creature of habit. I feel bad saying, "I know we never really have time off during the week together, but when we do, I don’t want to spend it with you." He is objectively correct that these overlaps don’t happen often, but unlike him, I don’t want to quote, "take advantage of them" by spending time together. What should we do?
Avery: Is it bad that like this just. Of all the murderer’s row of problems that you’ve lined up, this to me somehow feels like, not the saddest, like there’s no pain Olympics, but this is just indicative of a much larger, sadder, untouchable thing.
Danny: Yeah, I mean, I really I really get not liking somebody's unpredictable schedule. I am also a creature of habit. I also like a lot of time to myself, but I just don’t know what to say to someone who’s like, I don’t really like hanging out with my husband. Like, I don’t know how you solve that problem. It’s a problem like Maria.
Avery: Well, OK, so I was just reading Angela Chen’s book Ace, have you read it?
Danny: I have not.
Avery: So it’s really interesting because on its surface it’s about asexuality and ace sexual identity, ace sexual history, but it takes a fascinating turn into becoming really a tool kit for everyone to have more language around all different kinds of consent. To say like sometimes you don’t feel romantic, sometimes you don’t feel like having sex. Sometimes you don’t feel like spending time together. And all of these are fine. You know?None of these should be considered a problem. And I feel like. This almost reminds me of an extremely I mean, OK, so a huge part of her chapter in the end is she talks about people who don’t have sexual desire or don’t have much sexual desire in relationships with people who do, and this is a fairly common problem and that because society says that it is like the healthy and correct and right thing to do to want to have sex, like you have to be this way, that it is incumbent on the less desirous person to, like, meet those needs, which is the actual opposite of the way consent works when you’re not in a married relationship, you know, like it shouldn’t be incumbent on the person to provide that pleasure. And so I can almost see this playing out an even more asexual way here, because we’re told that, like, married couples love to spend all their time together, that like, you’re in the wrong, person. Writer. Like, you need to amend that and fix that. And I feel like this person, you know, common theme here: needs to go a little easy on themselves and understand that, like. this is OK and, like, I don’t know, I mean, part of me wonders if there could be some sort of structured boundary time or maybe their partner doesn’t know that they need that sort of introversion recharge time. But I feel like they’re not being vocal enough about what they need in this in this relationship.
Danny: Yeah, I think that can be useful. I hadn’t thought about applying a consent framework here, and, I’m not sure--I think I’ll let you do that, I like the idea of taking it from two different angles because part of me is just like, man, if you don’t want to hang out with your husband, like, I don’t know what to tell you. Like, do you like him? Like you say you already don’t see him that much. It doesn’t sound like he’s asking for you to, like, take him to the Crystal Palace or have sex all day so much as he’s just like, "you want to watch a movie or something?" and you’re like, no.
But if you two haven’t talked about the shift job yet and how much it affects, presumably both of you, maybe now’s the time. And to maybe talk about, like, both, what are ways in which I need to have some time during the week when I know if I have downtime at work, it’s mine to do with as I like and not subject to possibly you being free and then changing my plans. I really do get that. I think that’s fine to have a conversation about. I also think it’s not like it’s not fucked up that your husband’s like, "hey, I like hanging out with you". So I hope you can also just like. You know, don’t treat it as like someone awful is asking you to dance and you’re like, "Ugh, I just I wish you hadn’t even thought you could ask me. I don’t want to be rude, but like, ugh". I think it will also be fair if your husband’s like, yeah, my shift job is hard on me too. I also have a hard time dealing with the unpredictability, but it’s the only job I have. And sometimes I like to be around you. I hope you can also make some room to meet him halfway there.
And if you’re like, no, that sounds awful...Avery, as you were saying, maybe that’s a good chance to ask yourself like, do I want to change anything about our marriage? Do I like my husband? You don’t really go into that in the letter, letter writer, so I don’t want to speculate too far in either direction.
But I guess really all of this boils down to is you should talk about the elements of this that are difficult for you, you should try to come up with some sort of compromise where you both get something and you don’t treat either his desire to spend time together as a problem or your need to sometimes be alone as a bad thing. But yeah, if you don’t, you know, you never hang out. And he sometimes wants to hang out and you say no to that and you two never hang out and then you eventually grow distant...that might happen.
Avery: I just feel like this is a yeah, it’s true...I mean, this is true. The writer didn’t go into a lot of detail, but I think for people who are extremely extroverted, they don’t know that some people do need a lot of recharge time, you know, and they might take it personally. I--it sounds to me, knowing very little, that they’re both just a little mystified by each other in this way. And I think this could be bridged or I hope this could be bridged.
Danny: Yeah, yeah. And you know what? I also think that’s a good point, because I also just want to remind myself that, like, everybody is working under some of the most stressful conditions imaginable right now and have been since March. And that’s for people who are, like, able to continue working. So I also really get that part of what the letter writer is saying is not like I’m an introvert and therefore I’m entitled to like such and such accommodations every day or I get to call my union rep so much as like, work is really difficult, really stressful. And I now have to manage a lot of expectations, like from a distance remotely and while also seeming super cheerful.
Avery: Yeah.
Danny: And so if I get a break in the middle of the day, even my husband, who I love, like, I don’t want to fucking talk to anybody. I want to like, stare at a picture of a mountain and just like not exist for 20 minutes. And that makes a lot of sense to me. But just say what you do need and don’t frame it as like, "You’re asking for too much," just like, "Here’s what I need". And then also, hopefully you two will be able to find some time that you can spend together that you want to. And that would be ideal, if you spent some time with your partner, not all of your time, but some, and you mostly enjoyed it. And that’s just Danny Lavery's thoughts on marriage. Take it from me: I’m married.
Avery: It’s possible for creatures of habit. It can be done.
Danny: It can be done. And good luck. I also hope someday maybe he can get a--get promoted to a place where he gets to tell other people that they’re working a shift of unreasonable hours. That’s not ideal either. But at least...I don’t know. I hope no one ever has to work ever again.
Avery: Seriously
Danny: How are you doing? Speaking of work and exhaustion and managing things remotely, you’ve been great. You’ve been hanging out of closet this whole time.
Avery: Oh, man.
Danny: Recording under a tarp.
Avery: It’s it’s really been--it’s really been a pleasure. I mean, it’s kind of fascinating to see where people are. We’re all--I feel like the pandemic has reduced us all to our own individual sitcoms. We all have like a rotating cast of like five characters and it all takes place in one room. And this is all just like stranger than fiction. It’s kind of incredible what’s playing out. How are you holding up?
Danny: I would say conservatively now, ever since I learned that, I actually really, really like those kinds of headphones that just stick in your ear and don’t have cords. I previously thought they were goofy. And then I tried them and I was like, oh, my God, I feel peace. I would say I spend, hm, a third of every day just listening to those, like ambient YouTube channels that are just like forest beats, just like the sound of a stream and some birds and then like a drum and then like one pan flute. And it’s just like, fuck yes, and I just---
Avery: Oh yeah, when that pan flute drops
Danny:--live my life in like an Atlantis ambient sound soundscape. And that’s how I’m getting through. That’s how I’m doing it.
Avery: That’s your general advice to all of these people, correct?
Danny: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. If your husband wants to hang out and be like "can my airpods come?" and listen to Atlantic music and then just like nod and look happy.
Avery: Yeah, totally.
Danny: Absolutely. Whatever gets you through the day. Avery, thank you so, so, so much. Please do have me back on any time to talk about Lilith and any of the places that she lived on the series run, either of Cheers or Frasier.
Avery: Thank you very much for your expertise on specifically Cheers, I really appreciate the offer.
Danny: Today was really thorny and I really, really appreciated your thoughtfulness and your warmth. It was sorely needed.
Avery: I don’t know how you do this.
Danny: [indecipherable]
Edited from transcript.
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