agonyaunt | Dear Abby: My teens aren't happy about a new sibling

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Dear Abby: My teens aren't happy about a new sibling

DEAR ABBY: I am 44 and my husband of 20 years is 48. On a recent second honeymoon trip to Sweden, I became pregnant. We already have two beautiful, intelligent daughters, 17 and 14. One started university this fall while the other's a high school sophomore.

My problem is not so much the high-risk pregnancy, but rather that both of my girls strongly oppose the idea of us keeping the baby. Not only were they not thrilled when I broke the news to them, but they also cried.

My younger daughter is now giving me the cold shoulder. She doesn't like change and thinks having a sibling will disrupt our life. My older girl said she is glad she will be at the university so she won't have to have anything to do with the baby.

I am deeply hurt by their reactions. I need help to talk to them. Please give me some advice. -- EXPECTING IN CANADA

DEAR EXPECTING: Far more important than how your immature and self-centered daughters feel about your pregnancy is how you and your husband feel about it. Teenagers don't like to consider their parents as sexual beings, which may be part of the reason for their reaction.

Not knowing your girls, I'm not sure what they need to hear other than you love them and hope at some point they will become mature enough to accept the situation. But do not allow them to put you on the defensive. You don't owe them an apology. As a matter of fact, they owe you and their father one

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I'm gong to withhold comment on this (too many buttons, buttons everywhere), but I'm curious about other people's reactions, because frankly, the comments on the site have me kind of gobsmacked.

The only way I don't end up with "what the hell is wrong with those girls" is by coming up with some VERY involved and complicated stories.

Jealousy? They will likely get less attention (although most teens *want* less attention...) and also less money (less to go around once baby needs things) maybe even space-rearrangement at home (I mean if I *liked* my parents the idea that they might turn my room into new-sibling's room whilst I was away at uni would kinda suck)... they aren't handling it very well though, clearly.

Also in terms of thinking "I'm glad I won't be here" I guess there might be some fear that she (the teen daughter) might be called upon to be an assistant-parent, giving her many of the downsides of being a teen Mum, which I know I would have certainly would not want to have thrust upon me.

As noted below: I'm really talking behaviour here, not feelings.

It's entirely understandable to have mixed FEELINGS about your parent having a baby that'll be fourteen years younger than you. It's even understandable to mostly have D: D: feelings about it.

However, fourteen is old enough to know how to damn well behave like a thoughtful human being instead of a spoiled brat, let alone seventeen and off to college, and that's where I go "what the hell".

Like I said in the initial comment: I can make up stories that make the behaviour less "what the hell", but it requires presuming abusive tendencies from no indicators, so.

Honestly, if I'd been in the girls' shoes I wouldn't have been happy about the impending baby or wanted anything to do with it-- not because I feared change or was jealous of my parents' attention, but because by 14 I was already quite clear in my mind that I strongly dislike babies and wish to minimize contact with them.

But I would also have recognized that having the baby was not my goddamned choice and respected my parents' decision. Where I'd have pushed back is on the idea that their choice to have the baby obligated me to love it, or to spend time with it when not assigned to do so as an inescapable household chore.

Edited 2015-09-08 19:57 (UTC)

I'm curious: how would you feel about being required to care for the baby, say, an hour or so a week while a parent went to the grocery or the doctor? I ask because I've seen that question come up both in the comments section and in ye olde booj (parenting community), and about half the people came down on, "Kids chip in around the house, and if this is how, okay" and "it's unfair to ask kids to help raise a child you chose to have."

(I should add: I have siblings seven and eight years younger than I am, and because in part of my father's death when I was 11, I did a fair bit of child-minding as a kid. I still believe it made my relationship with all my siblings more difficult, but I always assumed it was, well, normal.)

For me there's a solid difference between minding a sib who's a few years younger than you but still past toddling, and asking a fourteen year old (especially one who hasn't had experience and isn't comfortable with babies) to watch an actual dependent infant.

So that one's very, very "circumstances depend".

Fair point. I know I changed diapers when my sibs were very little, but I definitely wasn't left alone with them until I was older (and thus, so where they).

Yeah, likewise. And circumstances even depend more: like, if the baby is a very reliable/stable napper, I think it's entirely fair to say "while baby naps I'm going to go get groceries" while leaving 14yo to read a book or watch TV and make sure the house doesn't fall down; on the other hand, if the baby is fuss-cranky-baby-central, I think it's kind of cruddy (and NOT a good plan for family harmony and sibling bonding) to dump that on the fourteen year old for an hour.

Etc. I'll spare you coming up with all the different factors. So. :3

Well, this is all extremely hypothetical; I have no siblings and have never taken care of a child of any age, for any period of time. But hypothetically-- I would have had some resentment that the total labor burden of the household had increased through no choice or fault of my own. But I think by the time I was fourteen, I would also have recognized that the existence of a sibling would eventually redound to my favor, once said sibling was old enough to share the burdens of eldercare decisions and pressure for grandchildren. So I suspect that with that fact in mind, I'd have probably accepted the increase in my total load of household chores with reasonably good grace, as a long-term labor-saving investment. But I'd have tried to get as little of that increase in the form of actual child-minding as possible-- I'd have been bargaining to take on a disproportionate share of other chores rather then spend time with the hypothetical infant sibling. (And if that failed I'd have been signing up for whatever school activities I wasn't already doing, with the goal of just never being home.)

My brother and sister are 15 and 16 years older than I am (and both went to the college where our father taught, so were nearby but mostly not living at home by the time I actually remember much.)

My parents went by a "First three people to put things on the calendar in the kitchen get to do them (including if a person who could drive was needed), last person has the baby." rule a lot, and when they actually asked my siblings to babysit, they were a) generally allowed to have friends over, and b) got paid about half the going rate for babysitters in the area.

(So, cheaper for my parents, but also in acknowledgement that they were in their own house, could have friends over, etc. that was more flexible and generally easier for everyone than babysitting in someone else's house. Both my siblings also babysat pretty regularly for other people, too, so the 'new baby' part was new to them, but not the rest of it.)

My sister was about 5yrs younger than me, and by the time I could babysit, I was reasonably paid because she is autistic, and thus required more hands-on care. Sometimes she'd just watch current TV show or movie of obsession, sometimes it was playing barbies or game of choice until the parents got home, sometimes it was dealing with meltdowns. I'm glad, at least, my parents recognized that it was something worth paying for, even if they paid a lot less than they would a babysitter. I didn't care, I was getting paid for chores already, so win! (Friends were a different matter, but that's because being homeschooled, most of my friends had lots and lots of extracurricular activities and school friends, so I was not a priority, plus none could drive and their parents weren't driving over. I was, however, allowed to call and talk with whoever I wanted, including long-distance, which was not cheap at that point in time. Because of cost + the time I usually spent when I did get to use the phone, this was a privilege.)

I am puzzled at some of the phrasing here, and wonder a little about the letter writer's boundaries. "Both of my girls strongly oppose the idea of us keeping the baby"--was it somehow presented to them as a question up for debate? If so, in God's name why? If the LW wants to have a third child the LW should do so (and more power to her). Her other children will need to deal with the development. That doesn't mean they need to be happy about it.

Lots of kids aren't thrilled about learning that they're going to have a new sibling. The younger daughter is right that it will disrupt their life--hopefully in positive ways as well as negative ones, but that's still a disruption. The older daughter is perfectly within her rights not to want to deal with babies (full disclosure: I avoid them entirely myself, although I'm glad other people enjoy them and I appreciate that babyhood is a necessary stage for creating delightful children and adults), and correct in the fact that geography means she won't have to.

Most kids come around to the idea eventually, often as soon as the new child is born. But expecting them to react with instant joy to a major change to their lives, one in which they were (perfectly reasonably) not consulted, is expecting a lot. It sounds like the LW has a great deal invested in her daughters' approval, and I wonder why. Is she not secure in her own decision to have this child? It's notable to me that nowhere in this letter does she say that she herself is happy about the pregnancy.

I feel for the LW and her daughters. I can see both how disrupted and out of control of their own lives they feel and how unsupported by her own family she feels. I hope they can all find ways to be kind to one another; they are a family.

(Which sounds dreadfully squishy, I know, but I really -- I don't think either side is fundamentally wrong in how they feel, and I hope they can compromise. I hope they can come together as a family to welcome the new member. God, I sound like a greeting card, but I really do hope they'll all be okay. I don't think any of them are villains here.)

I don't think it sounds squishy at all. Honestly, though, the person I feel worst for is the baby-to-be. Babies feel rejection, feel it very keenly, and if one of the Big People in its immediate circle views it as at best occasional burden and at worst as a smelly life-ruiner, the baby will feel it. Worst of all, if there isn't some compromise reached or change of feelings, there is no good way out of it.

I hear you. I am hoping, very much, that considering that teenagers can be dramatic and that a pregnancy takes a little while, that by the time the baby actually arrives the daughters's positions have mellowed and they can love their new sibling. I really hope someone can point out to them the differnce between valid feelings and cruel actions.

See, my thing is: I can understand the girls having complex-to-D: D:-esque feelings about a new baby. It's a complicated sudden thing they probably had no prep to expect. I LOATHE change, so.

However, fourteen and definitely seventeen-and-off-to-college are old enough to damn well know that's not how you behave about it, especially to the point of cold-shouldering your mother/going "oh thank god I won't have to be here."

It's the behaviour, not the feelings, that are pure "wtf" to me. Now I can imagine and make up some complex stories that might make the girls' behaviour less egregious (largely positing hidden abusive/exploitative/manipulative behaviour on the parents' part), but there's no real indication of that in the letter, and short of that . . .

I agree that the behavior is not good, but I don't have to posit abuse to make it explicable-- I just need to posit family (or teachers, church leaders, etc) policing their feelings. I'd have been distressed but too polite to say so if my parents had given me a surprise sibling at that age; but after the fourth or fifth time being sternly asked why I wasn't happier or assured that of course I would love the child when it arrived, politeness would have gone out the window.

Yeah for me that falls under "manipulative" (in this case the manipulation being an attempt to control emotions) - not egregious, maybe, but still present.

And that's possible! Just, you know. There's no actual indication of it in the letter.

I don't disagree with you at all - I concentrated on feelings in my reply because I don't endorse the daughters' behavior at all. But... I don't find it incomprehensible either. Wrong and hurtful, of course, but it makes sense to me that teenagers reacted this way, and I hope someone can disentangle the two threads for them and point out the difference between the valididty of their feelings and the unkindness aand wrongness of their actions.

Yeah I don't think I'm using adequately broadly-understood wording, so I'm just going to stop.

Eh. I don't think it's totally helpful to pretend that everything is A-OK when, er, it clearly isn't. Now, I think probably it would be better to find someone *else* to dump the FEELINGS on than Mum, but maybe Mum was badgering about it and demanding to know "why aren't you totally happy" and such.

Also I don't think that "giving someone the cold shoulder" is, like, the worst behaviour ever (Better would be actually completely removing themselves from the situation, rather than staying around to *huff* about the place; but they are *teens* they likely have no way of actually doing that safely). In fact I think it's a reasonably well-adjusted behaviour towards people you don't like; miles and miles better than hitting them, or destroying their property for instance (my brother used to break things when angry). I think the social-norm that everyone should always love and respect and be nice to their parents *is abusive*; with everyone else I get to say "no, I don't like you, I won't sit and talk with you", why not with my parents?

The "maybe mum was badgering about it" is actually what I mean when I say "I can make up scenarios that involve manipulative behaviour": however, with the letter there is nothing to indicate that is the case, so we might as well make up stories about how "cold shoulder" means "standing around and saying nasty things as if the other person didn't exist while they are in fact standing there." (Which is what a relative of a friend does when she is giving what their family refers to as "the cold shoulder").

There is nothing in the letter to indicate either way. So.

In my idiolect "cold shoulder" means "ignoring". So I guess "saying rude things" is worse than "ignoring".

Teenagers often act self-centered and bratty. In other news, the ocean is wet.

They'll get over it.

This is one of those ones where I would have loved to read the actual incoming letter for more details. (I also wonder how old that baby might be now, given the odd past tense on the daughter having started university "this" fall.)

Is there any significance to the fact that the baby was conceived on a second honeymoon abroad? Did the LW and her husband go through a period where they weren't being intimate? Did they separate and then reconcile? Are the girls' reactions tied up here with their feelings about their parents' marriage? Is it just colorful detail? Part of a longer explanation about the havoc travel wreaks on birth control?

Is there any relevant family dynamic around the girls both being academically ahead of their age? (It's possible they're in a weird school district and have close birthdays, but it's unusual in Canada to have both a 17-year-old in university and a 14-year-old in Grade 10).

What's the deal with "the idea of us keeping the baby"? Did the girls spontaneously suggest abortion, or are they responding to being involved in a changing reproductive decision?

What's the definition of a cold shoulder here? Actively being snotty about it? Giving Mom the silent treatment? Needing time to process? Not being sufficiently thrilled at the idea of going baby clothes shopping with Mom?

Honestly, it could well be they're just being a pair of twerps, but this is one of those letters that's either so lightly sketched or thoroughly edited that I wonder how useful the advice actually is.

Edited 2015-09-09 01:36 (UTC)

Yeah, the "idea of us keeping the baby" just seems weird. Were there previous abortions (or surrenders of custody) that the girls know about? (Or have either of them had either experience?) I just can't fathom anybody saying to anybody else "you're not keeping it, right?" let alone someone to their mother, but the letter writer frames the conversation as being more "hi! you're getting another sibling!" and less "so I'm pregnant and Dad and I are discussing what to do"...

And the "cold shoulder" could mean so many things, too, you're right - anything from actively being snotty (but they're teenagers, how do you tell?), giving Mom the silent treatment (but they're teenagers, it could be about many things), to just not wanting to go baby stuff shopping (but some people just hate shopping...)

It's also possible that some of their reaction came from their parents coming back from going on what sounds like a great vacation without the kids and making it impossible to forget that they had to stay at Great-Aunt Louise's house for two weeks while their parents were enjoying Europe.

The letter reads to me like she thinks this is an etiquette quandary not a parenting problem. It reads as if she was talking about her adult sisters or best friends getting upset at her pregnancy, not her 17 and 14 year old children whom she is still responsible for.

Abby's response seems to agree with that -- it's all about how LW feels, how her daughters feel, what the reason for their reaction is. Also Abby describes them as "immature and self-centrered". Um, YEAH -- they are 14 and 17, by definition they are immature. And teenagers are self-centered, that is part of the teenage condition. Some teenagers deal with it better than this, but expecting them not to be self-centered or immature is too much to ask.

LW's kids are behaving badly, and her reaction seems to be "how do I deal with my own hurt feelings?" not either "how do I prepare my children emotionally for a new sibling?" or "how do I teach my children how to behave properly?"

I'm also wondering where the father is in all this. He doesn't seem to be part of this conflict between daughters and mother over the parents' shared decision to have another child. His role seems to have been limited to the act of conception, even though he is right there?

These teenagers sound like they really desperately need someone to talk things out with who is not their mother, and who won't judge the hell out of them for expressing any conflicted or pure NOPE feelings they're having pre-baby. (Not that their mother is wrong to feel hurt and appalled, but she is so very much not the person to talk them through it at this point.)

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