agonyaunt | (no subject)

Dear Annie: I love my wife. We've been married for 11 years, but recently, she hasn't been taking my side with anything involving our 14-year-old son. She tells me that I am overreacting or being stubborn. OK, I know I can be stubborn, but I firmly believe a child should show respect to his parents. Right now, my problem is that I can't do a thing in my own house without asking permission from the 14-year-old.

Say someone calls and he asks me, "Who are you talking to?" Or, if I go outside, he asks, "Where are you going?" When I tell him that I'm the adult, that I don't answer to him, he replies that his mother gets onto me for getting onto him, so I just need to tell him everything. And if I get onto him and yell because I've told him over and over not to do something, then I'm the bad guy because I lost my temper.

I'm just tired of being ignored and disrespected all the time. Anyway, I try to talk to my wife about showing a united front in front of our son, but since he isn't biologically mine -- I just adopted him -- she tells me that she won't because I'm wrong all the time. What should I do? -- Frustrated and Tired Dad and Husband

Dear Frustrated and Tired: Trying to speak with your wife and show a united front is a great idea. Her dismissing you and saying that you are wrong all the time is not the best way to communicate. At this point, you might have to seek the help of a professional family counselor. It is important for your 14-year-old son to learn to respect you and your wife. It will serve him well in life.

If you don't teach your son proper manners and respect for you, his parent, he will sadly have to learn that lesson in the real world. Being disrespectful to a teacher or a boss can have serious life consequences. When you express your frustrations to your wife, explain that to her and that you are coming from a place of love and wanting what is best for all.

As for the process of gaining respect, remember that small victories should be celebrated. Try and focus on any subtle changes you see in your son, and remember, he is 14. Most teenagers have streaks of rebellion, of "disrespectfulness." This can actually be healthy if it is done in a safe way and you are all talking about it. Also remember that when you lose your temper, you only make matters worse. Try to stay calm during these more tense moments.

With the help of a professional, I'm hopeful you will all live harmoniously.

https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/dearannie/s-2418054

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Okay, it's true that the 14 year old should probably be a little less obviously disrespectful to his dad... although, yeah, he's 14 and I don't think his behavior here is even remotely similar to his future behavior at his first job.

And it's very true that LW's wife is in the wrong. It's not about "showing a united front", it's about the fact that if you didn't want your husband to be your son's father, you probably should not have married him when your son was still in preschool and definitely should not have agreed to the adoption. It is really inappropriate to pull the "you're not the real father" line now. I'd expect that from the teen, but from the mom?

However, with that said - LW is not winning parenting awards if the conversations are literally running "Who're you talking to?" "I'm an adult and don't have to answer to you!"

That is an excessively defensive response to what is really nothing more than immaturity. (And if LW's son is doing this primarily because LW cannot let him pick up the phone without interrogating him, or go outside without facing the third degree, then I think we know why the kid has chosen this particular button to keep pushing.) Find some other answer that doesn't rile both of you up.

I hadn't considered that the kid was mirroring the dad's controlling behavior. (I should have, but I already took my bedtime meds.)

I was assuming the kid was asking the stepdad the same questions the stepdad asked the kid, and it's "disrespectful" because (according to the stepdad) children have to answer questions, but aren't allowed to ask them.

In my authoritarian family-of-origin, children were expected to obey immediately and answer questions when asked, but ASKING questions was "talking back" and was punished, especially asking questions about things you were being told to do or rules being laid down.

This is AWFUL, because (for example) I was punished for "misbehaving" if I got the rules or requests wrong, and punished for "talking back" if I asked questions because it was unclear, and told "you should know better" about rules, when I wanted to know how they applied to nonstandard situations.

I do not have much sympathy for the LW, if this is the worst problem he's facing, he's lucky. The mother isn't doing such a great job either, for the reasons stated in

conuly's comment.

I was just about to write this comment (my family of origin was as you describe -- ugh) but I like your version better than mine. *cosigns*

I'm just going to go with, "What you said." No one here is acting in a manner conducive to family harmony and individual mental health.

There are a lot of elisions in this story. Just glossing over a bunch of stuff.

You've been this kid's parent since he was 3. Presumably at some point in those 11 years you made an attempt at parenting.

As for the questions. We've all been locked up for months. Without more examples of this disrespectful behavior, I'm concluding the kid's trying to make conversation.

I think the disrespectful jerk who needs an attitude adjustment is LW, actually. I mean, the kid may be poking at him deliberately (and what else is he supposed to do, with a corrupt authority he has no power over, besides indicate "I don't respect you" and look for allies to defend him?), and his wife needs to figure out better arguments than "you're not his real father" because that's a stinker, but she's not wrong to defend her son from an adult who wants to pointlessly power-trip on him, father or not.

"I firmly believe a child should show respect to his parents."

This is a screaming red flag to me. People who say things like this a) mean deference and submission, not respect, and b) have no valid argument to use against the behavior they don't like, which is why they are using a fallacious argument from authority. Defer to people older than you! Because I said so! I have no respect for you as an intelligent being, so I will not employ reasons! Bow to me!

The two examples he uses of "disrespect" are laughably absurd. Asking who a member of your household was talking to, or where they're planning to go when they go out? That's, like, ordinary conversation. Replying with "I'm the adult, I don't answer to [you]" makes LW a caricature of a Authoritative Asshole Dad. I don't think he deserves the deference he wants and I hope he never gets it.

(Also I kinda hope that the wife and son leave him? But maybe therapy might help him realize that he shouldn't be making his family relationships into power struggles he has to Win to prove his manliness.)

^^^^THIIIIISSSS!!!

I thought the same, but you said it better than I would have.

> Asking who a member of your household was talking to, or where they're planning to go when they go out? That's, like, ordinary conversation.

This really stood out to me because I also used to (as an adult) reply the same to my mother, and it was because we had a bad relationship and I had no intention to socialize in any way with her. So it's absurd LW talks like this to someone and at the same time expects the other person to respect him.

Asking who a member of your household was talking to, or where they're planning to go when they go out? That's, like, ordinary conversation.

I'm going to give him enough benefit of the doubt to assume that the kid is asking in a really excessively nosy and prying way. But I'll give the kid the benefit of the doubt and assume that Dad started all this.

This is an impressive example of burying the lede. I was expecting Annie to respond to the "she says I'm not really his father" in some way, whether asking how long LW's wife has been saying this, and in what contexts, or that LW and his wife should be able to discuss and agree on parenting, even if the default is that the boy's biological mother makes more of the decisions.

This is another letter where I'd like to see how the writer defines respect. The letter writer chose a "my son is nosy, so I yell at him" recurring story as an example of disrespect, but it doesn't really support his argument.

OH GROW UP. THE WHOLE LOT OF YOU. YES ANNIE THIS INCLUDES YOU.

Edited 2020-10-08 15:27 (UTC)

yeah this letter was a huge case of "Everybody Sucks Here". The LW, the wife, Annie, and, yes, the 14 year old, but at least he has an excuse.

Wife:

since he isn't biologically mine -- I just adopted him -- she tells me that she won't because I'm wrong all the time.

What the actual FUCK? That's not how any of this works.

LW:

I get onto him and yell because I've told him over and over not to do something

That's some bad parenting, LW. Teenagers are biologically primed to push your buttons, and they're going to succeed an awful lot of the time, but the advice column letter to write is not this one, it's "I can't stop myself from yelling irrelevant shit when the teenager pesters me like a two-year-old and it's causing family drama; what should I do?"

And, kid, I know you have learned bad behavior from your shitty parents, and you are at that age, but

he replies that his mother gets onto me for getting onto him, so I just need to tell him everything.

Get over yourself, kid. It's none of your business, and stop trying to make trouble between your parents.

Edited (markup) 2020-10-08 18:58 (UTC)

This. What a miserable f***ing house this sounds like.