Ask A Manager: My Office Won't Call Me Lord

[minoanmiss]

#3My Company Won't Call Me Doctor Or Lord

I was hoping that you could help me with a question I have regarding the use of honorifics in workplace documentation. I have recently acquired a new honorific, and my employers are refusing to use it on the documents that I have requested it be used on. I have legal documents that also show that my title is a fully legal one and can be used on official government documents up to and including my passport. Is there anything that I can do to get my employers to use it?

Specifically, I have a doctorate and I am also legally a Lord, meaning that I should therefore legally be entitled to either go by Lord LastName or Dr LastName. My employer has already referred to me as Lord LastName in several documents as well as Dr LastName in others, but they are now refusing to use either of them in any documents and on a display board that displays pictures of members of staff and their names underneath for visitors to familiarize themselves with. My passport actually also has my name as Lord FirstName LastName, which irks me that it can be used on important legal documents and yet, my employer refuses to acknowledge it.

It’s up to your employer to decide which honorifics they use across the board. If they use Doctor for other people with non-medical doctorates but not for you, you have a valid objection. If they don’t use it for anyone, that’s a choice about their culture that they’re allowed to make. The same goes for Lord.

I’m guessing you’re not in the U.S. and I can’t speak to how this would play in another country’s culture, but I can tell you that in the U.S. continuing to push for this would mark you as out-of-touch and pompous. I’d let it drop.

Comments

[xenacryst]

Is it bad of me that my first thought was ...

"Oh, dear lord..."

[cereta]

Well played, sir.

[cimorene]

Well, I laughed out loud.

Also if I worked at a company I would be SO delighted to get the opportunity to refuse to use honorifics to refer to someone who wanted them put on all the company documentation.

[cereta]

As a doctorate-having person, I have feelings about that particular honorific, ranging from, "It's considered a little gauche to use 'Dr.' outside of academic settings," and, "It's really easy for white men to talk about the irrelevance of titles when no one is going to challenge their place in a college classroom," to even, "Okay, I told my students I was fine with 'Dr.,' 'Prof.,' and 'Ms.,' so why does it bug me a little that so many of them use 'Ms.'?" Add in the recurring drama about Jill Biden calling herself, "Dr. Biden," and it's a mishmash. And I don't know if the same attitudes are held in what I'm guessing is the U.K.

That said, I'm kind of guessing that LW is not in an academic environment, if only because of the terms "workplace" and "boss," but also because if it were an academic environment, there would be others with the title, "Dr." And in the state of dudgeon the LW is in, I'm pretty sure he'd mention if others were getting the honorific and he wasn't. (Extrapolating "he" from "Lord.")

I confess I don't know enough about the etiquette surrounding titles to say whether "Lord" is appropriate in the workplace. To my American ears, it sounds kind of...superior to insist on it in a workplace of supposed equals, but I don't know if that's true across the pond.

[oursin]

Way back around 1960, there was a group of scientists who were working in fields so cutting-edge that they attained the Nobel before they got their PhDs and in fact never got that degree and formed a small club on that basis. (At least I get that impression from the autobiography of one of their number.)

In the institution where I used to work there was a woman entitled to call herself Lady (husband was a Sir) but always used her academic title. But in most UK workplaces, even these days, I would surmise, the offices of Debretts or the Tatler, people don't go around insisting on being called Lord. Probably only in the House of, where there is presumably still a lot of ancient ritual.

[wordweaverlynn]

I'm delighted to hear about the Nobel Prize winners with no doctorate.

Fun fact: At Berkeley, all Nobel Prize winners get their own designated parking spot.

[naath]

we (UK) are academic adjacent (my team do computers for academics) we have a few people who are Dr. We (everyone, up to and including Professor Sir In-charge-of-everything) are mostly one first name terms; I doubt anyone would say "oy that's DOCTOR JONES" if you called them "Bob" but I expect they would if you said "Mr Jones" (IME this is largely people trying to sell stuff who think the honorific is ingratiating but cba to look up which to use).

I've never talked to any Lords, a few Sirs and Dames, in academia (including with undergrad student) in England the usage tends to just be "Dr Jones" or "Bob" except when you are Out To Impress when you might bring out Professor Sir Bob Jones (OBE); such as on the prospectus... in medical scenarios using "doctor" in place of a name seems fairly common (only of medical doctors though)

[jadelennox]

I vaguely recall a friend of my sister's who became a Labour peer -- but the family were socialists, and they lost a few friends because they didn't refuse the honour. I seem to remember they got very angry whenever anyone said "Sir" or "the honourable" or whatevs.

[minoanmiss]

I confess I don't know enough about the etiquette surrounding titles to say whether "Lord" is appropriate in the workplace. To my American ears, it sounds kind of...superior to insist on it in a workplace of supposed equals, but I don't know if that's true across the pond.

The general (and hilarious) reaction in the comments is that someone who insisted would be considered, "a bit of a knob".

(More seriously, the issues of doctorates and people who are/aren't expected to have them are being discussed to good effect.)

[shirou]

In my workplace, everyone goes by first name. Nobody calls me Dr. Lastname, and I would feel super weird if they did. I also work in a place where many people have doctorates.

Occasionally I talk to somebody, such as a local official, who goes by Dr. Whoever. If it's someone I like, I don't mind if they call me Mr. Lastname; but if I'm feeling confrontational, I'll let it slip they should be calling me Dr. too, e.g., "oh I got my Ph.D. at Fancy Pants University".

[watersword]

Bro. Bro.

Ditto cereta's comments, but also: dude. Bro. Pal. Buddy.

[cereta]

That sums it up rather neatly.

[watersword]

Like, I can absolutely see a member of an under-represented group insisting on an earned title. But a title of nobility? In the workplace? That one is a stretch.

[minoanmiss]

I know, right? I have a hard time believing someone was this utterly dense. But people are....

[watersword]

Also, the "entitlement issues" tag has never been applied better.

[minoanmiss]

beams I couldn't resist.

[ioplokon]

LOL also if his company does any business in France, forget it!! My friend has a 'de' in his name and whenever he's in France people always make jokes about how they killed their nobles. That's a bit unfair but I do think if you insist on going by "Lord" you are, at a minimum, inviting people's opinions on aristocracy.

[beable]

I will admit that even though I've watched stuff like Downtown Abbey and I play in the SCA where titles are common I assumed the LW was some sort of crackpot and it didn't occur to me that they were talking about an actual UK-style nobility title as opposed to, say, trying to bring their BDSM hobby to work until I read the comments.

I'd laugh so hard if I ran into someone in the workplace earnestly insisting on being called Lord (or Lady).

[likeaduck]

This is what I keep thinking of:

https://establishedtitles.com/

Lordship & Ladyship Title Packs
Purchase a personal Lordship or Ladyship Title Pack with dedicated land in Scotland.*

*This is a purchase for a personal dedication for a souvenir plot of land. You may choose to title yourself with the title of Lord, Laird or Lady.

Each pack contains:
One square foot of dedicated land on a private estate in Aberdeenshire, Scotland and a printable certificate with a crest, making it the perfect gift for anyone, anywhere.

[minoanmiss]

Ahahahha yeah, people brought that up on AAM.

[conuly]

I imagine that has about as much real-world value as the name your own star kits.