ashbet: (Default)
ashbet ([personal profile] ashbet) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2020-09-18 07:39 pm
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“ I’ve been lying to my partner about the coronavirus safety measures I’m taking”

Dear Dr. Andrea,

My partner and I have a very solid and loving relationship. We have been together for three years and lived together for two. We are as committed as two people can be. I feel like I am breaking his trust though. My partner is a more nervous person and more of an introvert than I am. When the lockdown first started, he took comfort in holing up in our townhouse, working from home, getting groceries delivered and doing the occasional FaceTime with his family, but that was pretty much it. He has been content with that life. We walk our dog while masked and we have gone on a handful of hikes at off times in remote places. But that is really the extent of him leaving the house in months. I can’t manage that way. I have a broader circle of friends and am much more of a “chat with the neighbors” type. I also need fresh air, activity and novelty. And I need to go on runs.

I convinced him to let me grocery shop starting a couple of months ago and to run certain other errands, but he was very nervous about it. On one of those trips I ran into our neighbor and we decided to have coffee outside. That turned into me occasionally making plans to see other friends for coffee or a backyard drink. At this point I am routinely “going for a long run” when in reality I am seeing people or browsing at a clothing store. I had lunch at a restaurant (outdoor seating) with a friend last weekend. I justify it each time because I am being as safe as possible and my mental health is important, but I know he would be really upset.

I want to start fresh and come clean but I also know that I can’t live the way he expects me to.

—I know this isn’t good

I understand how different your needs are than his, but you are digging yourself into a hole — a hole that harms your partner. It not only erodes trust but it misleads him into exposure that he did not knowingly consent to.

What is your endgame here? Maybe you hope that society will flip the “normal” switch and you’ll be back on the same page as him, never having to let on what you’ve been doing. But how would that work? Would your neighbors never let on about the lattes? Would you have to fake the awe of being at a boutique for the first time in a year, when in reality you know their inventory by heart? The deception mechanics alone give me a headache.

Even when restrictions further loosen, do you expect your partner to suddenly be okay with everything? The crawl back to “normal” will be gradual, with fits and starts (and new anxieties) along the way.

Most grave is that you are violating boundaries that he still believes are in place — boundaries that involve his values, his comfort levels, and his health and safety. This isn’t like leaving socks on the floor. You have decided that his health beliefs and needs aren’t as valid or as important as yours. You have denied him the chance to defend those beliefs and simply put your own beliefs into action without his consent. All while he doesn’t even get the right to be aware of his personal limits being broken, over and over again.

I’m not trying to make you feel worse, but rather to have you understand that no matter how much of an impasse you imagined would have occurred if you confessed after that first coffee, it’s likely not nearly as bad as having to answer for serious deception. And that gets worse with each passing day.

I’m guessing a part of you will still resist coming clean, thinking you can make it work and that it’s not that big of deal if you’re following recommended health guidelines. That may be the least uncomfortable route in the short-term. But ask yourself: Why should your short-term comfort be so much more powerful than the long-term strength of your relationship and his right to protect his own health in the ways that he sees fit?

Have the hard conversation. Come into it with full empathy, vulnerability and remorse. Explain your needs and the slippery slope of one tiny decision giving way to a whole host of bad ones. There’s no way to make it comfortable and there’s no way he won’t be upset (which is his right). It won’t be magically easy to come up with acceptable boundaries for you both to live together going forward.

But ultimately, it really is a question of the person you want to be — and the relationship you want to have.

https://www.thelily.com/ask-dr-andrea-ive-been-lying-to-my-partner-about-the-coronavirus-safety-measures-im-taking/?tid=recommended_by_lily
rmc28: Rachel in hockey gear on the frozen fen at Upware, near Cambridge (Default)

[personal profile] rmc28 2020-09-19 06:55 am (UTC)(link)

Oh YEAH.

Now, in my household, I'm the more outgoing, more social, less cautious adult. But guess what? I don't lie to my spouse about where I'm going or what I'm doing. I check in with him about our shared understanding of what is acceptable risk.

LW is being a bit more risky than I would, but the real problem is the lying. If my spouse were that upset about me having garden meetups and outdoor coffees with friends, I would insist we sit down and talk through the risks and benefits, just like we would for anything else where we had a conflict of needs. That might be really difficult! There might not be an easy solution! But lying to avoid the difficult conversation makes LW someone I wouldn't want as a partner.

minoanmiss: Minoan lady watching the Thera eruption (Lady and Eruption)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2020-09-19 01:10 am (UTC)(link)
LW is having an affair with the world.
lilysea: Serious (Default)

[personal profile] lilysea 2020-09-19 03:39 am (UTC)(link)
I really did feel like this lined up with cheating, myself -- the lying, deception, and health risks are similar.

The health risks are actually WORSE than if the partner was cheating sexually.

As of September 2020, having HIV is more treatable and has better long term outcomes than COVID.
[Assuming access to good quality medical care and medications for both]

Nearly 8 in 10 people who didn't require hospitalization from COVID have had cardiovascular [heart] damage from COVID
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768916?guestAccessKey=698ebd4c-5c29-4069-9ef6-8839bcbc07de
Edited 2020-09-19 03:39 (UTC)
jadelennox: I've been patient, I've been gracious, and this mountain is covered with wolves (joco: wolves)

[personal profile] jadelennox 2020-09-19 03:05 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, this. This read exactly to me like someone rationalizing that their spouse doesn't need to know about their cheating, and after all, they know that they've been taking STD precautions, and they're sure all their sexual partners are as well, and why does spouse need to know, and they didn't read that web page on ethical polyamory but they think it just means using condoms, right, after all their mental health is so important.
julian: Picture of the sign for Julian Street. (Default)

[personal profile] julian 2020-09-19 04:43 am (UTC)(link)
Succinct, and accurate.

LW, you're making excuses because there *is no excuse* for this kind of lying. Stahhhp.
sporky_rat: Marc Antony. Text: Gods grant me the strength not to murder them all and eat their livers. (EAT THEIR LIVERS OMG!!!1111)

[personal profile] sporky_rat 2020-09-19 01:40 am (UTC)(link)

My husband is a necessary worker and is still more careful than this person is.

AAAAAUUUUGGGGHHH

ex_flameandsong751: An androgynous-looking guy: short grey hair under rainbow cat ears hat, wearing silver Magen David and black t-shirt, making a peace sign, background rainbow bokeh. (reactions: ò_ó)

[personal profile] ex_flameandsong751 2020-09-19 01:49 am (UTC)(link)
oh my fucking god, what a piece of shit. Let me be blunt, if I was LW's partner and I found this out, I would be so fucking done. (I am in a high-risk group for COVID so I'm probably coming at this with more rage than is warranted, but COVID is killing young, healthy people too.)
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2020-09-19 02:32 am (UTC)(link)
Nope, entirely warranted rage on your part.
jadelennox: I've been patient, I've been gracious, and this mountain is covered with wolves (joco: wolves)

[personal profile] jadelennox 2020-09-19 03:07 am (UTC)(link)
I am 100% with you. I am pretty sure the other people in my family think I'm a little over-the-top about my risk assessment, but they accept that it is mine. If they started lying to me about their actions I would move the fuck out.
lilysea: Serious (Default)

[personal profile] lilysea 2020-09-19 03:45 am (UTC)(link)
oh my fucking god, what a piece of shit. Let me be blunt, if I was LW's partner and I found this out, I would be so fucking done.

10,000% agree

(I am in a high-risk group for COVID so I'm probably coming at this with more rage than is warranted, but COVID is killing young, healthy people too.)

At this stage I am actually less worried about COVID killing people immediately [altho that is obviously a risk]

than I am about what appear to be potentially life-long health damage to the people who survive COVID - it appears that even "mild" COVID can massively damage quality of life for 6 months or longer after wards, and lead to conditions that can shorten life expectancy.

eg

kidney failure

heart damage

brain damage

increased risk of stroke

etc

COVID-19 Can Wreck Your Heart, Even if You Haven't Had Any Symptoms
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-19-can-wreck-your-heart-even-if-you-havent-had-any-symptoms/

Nearly 8 in 10 people who didn't require hospitalization from COVID have had cardiovascular [heart] damage from COVID
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768916?guestAccessKey=698ebd4c-5c29-4069-9ef6-8839bcbc07de

Long-hauler COVID patients meet with the WHO
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/covid-long-haulers-who-coronavirus
ex_flameandsong751: An androgynous-looking guy: short grey hair under rainbow cat ears hat, wearing silver Magen David and black t-shirt, making a peace sign, background rainbow bokeh. (COVID: Pusheen social distancing)

[personal profile] ex_flameandsong751 2020-09-19 03:52 am (UTC)(link)
Yes. God, yes. Even if I caught COVID and it didn't kill me, I would probably have such diminished quality of life thereafter because of the long-term damage it does to things like your heart and lungs.
jamoche: Spock: That's illogical, you raving fucktard (Spock logic fail)

[personal profile] jamoche 2020-09-19 01:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Totally warranted rage. I’m not high risk but I’m still following the same rules as back in March because AFAICT nothing has changed since then, and it’s jerks like this who are the reason for that.
azurelunatic: Vivid pink Alaskan wild rose. (Default)

[personal profile] azurelunatic 2020-09-19 02:59 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, you are breaking his trust.
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[personal profile] neotoma 2020-09-19 12:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, this is not the way a healthy relationship works. Concealing activities that put you AND your partner at risk because you know they wouldn't want you doing them is just setting a trap for yourself in the future.
conuly: (Default)

[personal profile] conuly 2020-09-19 03:46 pm (UTC)(link)
WTF, LW?
shreena: (Default)

[personal profile] shreena 2020-09-19 06:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Am I the only one sympathetic to the LW?

He sounds controlling and totally unwilling to compromise. She basically has to beg to be allowed out. I am not convinced that this isn't more about controlling her than covid.
kaberett: Trans symbol with Swiss Army knife tools at other positions around the central circle. (Default)

[personal profile] kaberett 2020-09-20 11:07 am (UTC)(link)
I agree emphatically with all of this.
conuly: (Default)

[personal profile] conuly 2020-09-20 02:21 pm (UTC)(link)
You can't compromise on health issues. If this is an abusive relationship, LW should be making an exit plan. If this is just a mutual dealbreaker, then LW should tell him so they can break up or live separately or whatever.
lilysea: Serious (Default)

[personal profile] lilysea 2020-09-20 02:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Am I the only one sympathetic to the LW?

He sounds controlling and totally unwilling to compromise. She basically has to beg to be allowed out. I am not convinced that this isn't more about controlling her than covid.


It is not abuse to say

"I need you to do everything in your power not to bring home a virus that could kill me or seriously and permanently disable me, and if you can't agree to that, one of us needs to move out."
minoanmiss: a black and white labyrinth representation (Labyrinth)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2020-09-21 04:58 am (UTC)(link)
This is one of the reasons I compared the LW's actions to an affair. There are quite a few people who have affairs for sympathetic reasons, who are not getting needs met in their 'official' relationship/relationships which are met by the affair.

However, having an affair is still dishonest, still a breaking of agreements and a betrayal of trust, no matter what sympathetic reasons people have for entering into one.

In 2019 I would have thought LW's SO was being controlling and scary. But a new factor has entered the equation, a disease that kills more than one in one hundred people who catch it and which leaves many more permanently injured. If LW can't live by their SO's rules then they need to deal with that aboveboard, for both their SO's sake and their own.
lemonsharks: (Default)

[personal profile] lemonsharks 2020-09-21 09:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes. The LW is playing roulette with their partner's health which is a giant, awful breach of trust.

I also read this as being a m/m couple for whatever reason, so I had that response without the patriarchy-baggage of an assumed hetero relationship. One does not get to play roulette with their partner's health in direct violation of a clearly stated boundary about that health.
ioplokon: purple cloth (Default)

[personal profile] ioplokon 2020-09-19 10:42 pm (UTC)(link)
One thing I would point out is that most ~introverts~ are also not 'content' with the quarantine life but are generally trying to put on a brave face to comfort their more outgoing friends and partners. I think it's a mistake for LW to assume this is easier for their partner.

Anyway, different risk tolerance is something that I imagine is doing a number on a lot of couples. On the one hand, it has to feel shitty to feel like you have to ask permission or go through a whole thing every time you want to leave the house to determine if it's necessary or justifiable. On the other, it is not unreasonable to be worried about covid risks, especially in areas where community spread is high and even the necessary activities, like grocery shopping, are increasingly risky.

Maybe it would help if they came up with a 'reopening plan' for their household? Like, having set criteria when it would be okay to meet outdoors with masks, when would it be ok to meet outdoors and eat or drink, etc. Then it doesn't seem like an interminable future of solitude, plus it's not like a 'mother may I' vibe with each day and each activity.
lemonsharks: (Default)

[personal profile] lemonsharks 2020-09-21 09:02 pm (UTC)(link)
This.

I'm thankful every day that I'm not an extrovert, because quarantine would be so much worse if I were. That doesn't mean introverts have been having private alone time parties every day since march.
mirlacca: still blue flowers (Default)

[personal profile] mirlacca 2020-09-20 05:49 pm (UTC)(link)
This behavior is not the basis for a "solid and loving" relationship.
likeaduck: Cristina from Grey's Anatomy runs towards the hospital as dawn breaks, carrying her motorcycle helmet. (Default)

[personal profile] likeaduck 2020-09-22 01:23 am (UTC)(link)
I kinda think all the anger and explaining why what the LW is doing is bad is unproductive. Like, it's understandable? But it misses the point of the letter and the question (I think? It's not like the LW actually asked a question, though), and it doesn't make the LW any more able to actually have the conversation that puts the power to consent or not back in their partner's hands. LW already says, "I want to start fresh and come clean" and "I know this isn’t good," so why is most of the answer eaten up with explaining to them why it's bad and they should come clean? It doesn't leave much room for anything useful about how to do that.
Edited 2020-09-22 01:28 (UTC)