beable: (Absinthe and Roses)
The Violets of Chaos ([personal profile] beable) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2019-12-18 04:27 pm
Entry tags:

Dear Carolyn - have you ever heard of nuance? No? Didn't think so

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/carolyn-hax-her-feeling-of-being-slighted-doesnt-pass-the-sniff-test/2019/12/05/cf17a47e-1153-11ea-b0fc-62cc38411ebb_story.html )

Dear Carolyn: I recently had cancer surgery with a number of complications, including severe asthma. It is triggered by, among other things, the slightest exposure to fragrances.

Months ago, my beloved partner of nine years and I scheduled a multiday visit with his brother and sister-in-law, at their invitation. They are very well-off and have a grand house in a beach community. Sister-in-law has been communicating often about how excited she is to have us as guests. We have stayed with them in the past, every three years for a brothers' reunion.

A few days ago, I recalled her flair for decorating includes bowls of potpourri, plug-in air fresheners, candles and a permanent holiday tree laden with scented ornaments. I contacted her and said I understood this might be perceived as a lot of drama, but I must avoid triggers that cause my airways to shut down.

Sis-in-law responded that we would be better off at a nearby hotel, so I can have a fragrance-free environment. In other words, she is not willing to remove her scented products while we are visiting, so I am now essentially disinvited. She did phrase it very nicely — with the exception of one slightly snarky comment about how it must be really hard for me to go anywhere these days.

My partner and I concluded that it makes the visit pointless. I would be stuck in a hotel room costing hundreds of dollars, unable to attend gatherings in their house with everyone else.

My partner told his brother we couldn't visit, and to get a sub for the three-day sporting event they were supposed to play in together. Brother really worked on my partner to make the trip, so he felt compelled to go, and off he went.

I am trying mightily to not feel slighted, without success. If the situation were reversed, I would certainly temporarily remove scented products.

How might I best view all this? There's another get-together there this summer.

— Feeling Excluded

Feeling Excluded: But . . . it really must be hard for you to go anywhere these days.

I say that snark-free. It’s an observation made in sympathy for how terribly limiting this can be.

That was my first thought while reading your letter.

And maybe I misread her intent, but my next thought was, your sister-in-law gave a pragmatic response to an impractical request. “Temporarily” removing scented products from a home heavily layered with them won’t create anything close to a “fragrance-free environment.” Remove every peel, fluff and pfft from the place and it’ll still stink for weeks.

You’ve conflated inclusion — which is realistic and deserved — with scent-purging, which is unrealistic.

Maybe if you say reality disinvited you, not your sister-in-law, that will help you not feel slighted.

Meanwhile, this is your partner’s family — his going solo was both unfortunate and appropriate.

But that also means you and he need to start brainstorming now, with another event always on the way: Different host? Same host, with gatherings off-site or outdoors? A resort? If you can get past taking personally what is meant logistically, then you’ll think and negotiate better.

It’s also okay to tell your partner this is for the brothers to figure out while you focus on getting well.

In fact, that’s exactly what I hope you’ll do.
cimorene: cartoony drawing of a woman's head in profile giving dubious side-eye (Default)

[personal profile] cimorene 2019-12-18 09:44 pm (UTC)(link)
I feel all of your c) bitterness and second it heartily, and also,

EXACTLY, all of this. I find this baffling. Like, yeah, she can't make her entire house scentless, but she could put away those things and three days notice is surely enough time to air out, like, the livingroom and one guestroom and one bathroom, or whatever? Windows! Fans! Absence of perfume and smelly objects! Like... sure, the house will still have some hot spots probably, and maybe that room won't be scent-free, but it's not impossible.

OTOH, if her sister-in-law buys all scented cleaners, it might be difficult to make the guest bed non-smelly - laundry perfumes can be incredibly tenacious. The LW would possibly need to bring her own linens.

I could MAYBE see a scenario where, like Carolyn seems to suggest, the SIL was just concerned because she couldn't assume the responsibility for declaring her house clean and didn't want to accidentally trigger LW if the smell didn't go down enough... if not for the "it must be hard to go anywhere!"

And also... yeah, sometimes it might be appropriate to travel without your spouse to see your family, but you know what also might be appropriate? Talking to your spouse and considering and weighing their feelings very heavily when they are in recovery from a life-threatening illness before you make your travel decisions.
minoanmiss: Minoan men carrying offerings in a procession (Offering Bearers)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2019-12-19 03:56 am (UTC)(link)
I could MAYBE see a scenario where, like Carolyn seems to suggest, the SIL was just concerned because she couldn't assume the responsibility for declaring her house clean and didn't want to accidentally trigger LW if the smell didn't go down enough... if not for the "it must be hard to go anywhere!"

Yes, this.
basingstoke: crazy eyes (Default)

[personal profile] basingstoke 2019-12-18 10:16 pm (UTC)(link)
...SIL thinks a hotel is a fragrance free environment?!?!?

I have this exact condition and yes, it IS hard to go anywhere. It’s very hard.

You know what’s not hard, if you have money? Buying an air purifier. Even a Dyson is only $400, much less than a week in a hotel. OP would probably have to bring her own linens bc laundry perfumes are the FUCKING WORST but I would like to think family would accommodate her.

So yeah, they did disinvite her, and she has every right to be in her feelings about that.
ashbet: (Default)

[personal profile] ashbet 2019-12-19 01:33 am (UTC)(link)
I spent 3 months completely wrecked by asthmatic bronchitis this summer -- fragrance is always an asthma/migraine trigger, but I'm especially sensitive right now.

And I had a friend who asked about giving me some handmade scented soaps for my birthday -- I very diplomatically said that I couldn't accept them because of my fragrance sensitivity, and then she showed up at my party drenched in perfume!! D:

(I was happy to see her, but couldn't be physically close to her after the initial hug, bc it almost knocked me over.)

I feel for the LW so much. It's bad enough to be essentially disinvited from the actual Christmas celebration at the SIL's house, but then to have their partner abandon them for the family party/sports event, right after they had seriously complicated cancer surgery??

UGH -- the SIL is being a jerk about the fragrance stuff, but I can't believe the partner left the LW at home alone over the holidays (unless I'm misreading the timing of the letter and the holiday tree) after "recent" cancer and surgery :/

And, yeah, there's a big difference between "fragrance was in a room a week ago" and "fragrance is in a room RIGHT NOW."
(deleted comment)
ayebydan: by <user name="pureimagination"> (Default)

[personal profile] ayebydan 2019-12-19 02:18 am (UTC)(link)
Agreed
shirou: (cloud)

[personal profile] shirou 2019-12-19 02:37 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I agree too. Even LW acknowledges SIL was nice about it. SIL just cannot reasonably guarantee the removal of all fragrances, and LW needs to recognize that.

I'm less sure what I think about the husband. LW doesn't say how much they discussed him going by himself. Normally I think solo travel is fine, especially if it's just to visit family, but cancer recovery is not a normal circumstance. Husband should have made sure LW was fully comfortable with him going. If he didn't, that was a serious error.
minoanmiss: Minoan lady holding a bright white star (Lady With Star)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2019-12-19 04:00 am (UTC)(link)
I would agree with you if it weren't for the "it must be really hard to go anywhere" bit. That has a clear implication of "if you're not staying locked in your home that proves you're overreacting about scents and I'm not pandering to that overreaction." (And I think it was downright awful of Carolyn to echo it. If I were the LW I'd think she didn't believe me.) I think both the SIL and the LW have failed to consider all the steps each of them could take to reach compromise, but I did think that line was egregiously snarky, especially towards someone dealing with a major illness.
cynthia1960: cartoon of me with gray hair wearing glasses (Default)

[personal profile] cynthia1960 2019-12-20 03:17 am (UTC)(link)
The LW has a very real disability, and understanding that moving in a world with pervasive and persistent scents all around is going to be difficult enough without adding snark.

As noted above, the brother's home probably can't be made scentless quickly enough not to trigger LW's asthma, and Carolyn rightly points out that there is going to have to be brainstorming how to handle future events.
moem: A computer drawing that looks like me. (Default)

[personal profile] moem 2019-12-21 07:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Or it could have been genuine, snark-free, and an attempt at sympathy. That's how I read it. She's not even wrong, it probably IS really hard to go anywhere!
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2019-12-21 10:19 pm (UTC)(link)

I have someone very dear to me who is very sensitive to scents. This person is quite capable of holding down a job outside the home, etc (though some days they come home ill due to someone's perfume, etc). Still, if someone used their ability to do so to say, "They're just being a drama queen, I can wear my customary half bottle of perfume to their house" I would be displeased with such a person.

There's an idea that if a sensitivity doesn't impair someone "enough" or "totally" it's not real, and I can't think of any reading of "it must be really hard to go anywhere" that doesn't imply that concept, because if it's not really hard/impossible for the sufferer to go anywhere then by the logic of the statement they must be overstating.

moem: A computer drawing that looks like me. (Default)

[personal profile] moem 2019-12-21 11:20 pm (UTC)(link)
I can't read it the way you do even if I try. It may be my lack of English skills, since I'm not a native speaker. But even if I translate it, it still sounds to me like they're being sympathetic by saying 'Wow, that must be hard for you'.

Surely it really *is* hard for the LW to go anywhere? I mean, coming home ill some days like the person you're talking about... that sounds hard. I'd consider that hard, at least.

Maybe I'm naieve?
naath: (Default)

[personal profile] naath 2019-12-19 03:03 pm (UTC)(link)
I think "sorry my house is inaccessible to you" is a step up from "sure, come (and be poisoned)" but a long way from making it accessible (which may not be possible in the time available now) (or possible, or affordable, in any case; although 'have no potpourri' is cheaper than 'build all new ground floor loo')
purlewe: (Default)

[personal profile] purlewe 2019-12-19 03:56 pm (UTC)(link)
I think that even if the SIL had tried to remove her potpourri and her air fresheners and had her to the house something would have triggered her asthma. Sometimes we need to just stay home for our health and while the SIL's snarky sentence probably was well intentioned (still snarky, could have been said more kindly) it probably should have been decided that the LW would be staying home anyway. Sometimes we push ourselves too far too fast for family.

The husband going? well. I feel like unless there were discussions and it was a joint decision to go, he probably should have stayed home. But then that is a topic for the LW and her hubby.
cynthia1960: cartoon of me with gray hair wearing glasses (Default)

[personal profile] cynthia1960 2019-12-20 02:51 am (UTC)(link)
+1000
cynthia1960: cartoon of me with gray hair wearing glasses (Default)

[personal profile] cynthia1960 2019-12-20 05:56 am (UTC)(link)
Carolyn reminds the LW to focus on getting well. As part of this, I can very well imagine that LW and partner are having to take all sorts of scent countermeasures in their own home to deal with the new asthma triggers. Letting the brother's family know about what changes they've had to make is reasonable, and I am assuming that the family aren't the kind of malicious assholes that slip horrible allergens into food because all of this is imaginary. If they are, they can fry in a punitive afterlife, and who needs visits?

Given the knowledge of what things can be done that provide the biggest help, the SiL can then work with them on solutions. And, give them more than a few days lead time, ok? A fragrance free hotel room might provide enough respite that enables LW to visit the family for a few hours at a time.
lemonsharks: (Default)

[personal profile] lemonsharks 2019-12-20 08:24 pm (UTC)(link)
SIL should have left off the snarky comments, however:

- SIL's home will never be accessible to to the LW. She suggested alternate lodging because she can't accommodate LW's needs, which is what you're supposed to do.

- Could have done without the snark, though I give 50/50 odds the "must be so hard" was actually snarky vs a glitch in communication.

- The event hosts should have found alternate venues for the most important gatherings.

- Where is BIL, the actual blood kin relation in all this, and why is he not working this shit out with LW's husband (his brother)? We know why.

- LW is still mourning her old life, and could probably benefit from counseling if she hasn't been going already.
cynthia1960: cartoon of me with gray hair wearing glasses (Default)

[personal profile] cynthia1960 2019-12-21 10:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Absolutely.