agonyaunt | (no subject)

Dear Annie: I'm 50 years old and have two adult children. Their mother and I divorced 15 years ago. Throughout our marriage, my wife had many affairs. She's married twice since we split up.

Five years ago, my son married a woman who has become close to my ex. My daughter-in-law has labeled me a mental case to many family members, friends and acquaintances. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen my son in the past five years, and each time, he was extremely disrespectful and said horrible things to me. They now have a 2-year-old son, whom I have seen only briefly on three occasions even though they live nearby. I believe my ex-wife has had a great influence in turning my son into a cold, ruthless person.

I'm financially well off and recently updated my will to leave my son only $20 because of all the pain and anguish he has caused me. I prefer to distance myself from him, but I would like to have a relationship with my grandson. Is there any way to do this? -- Proud Grandpa

Dear Grandpa: Not without also having some type of relationship with your son. After all, he isn't preventing you from seeing the boy. Some states are sympathetic to grandparents' rights, but your son might be able to convince the judge that his distancing is in his son's best interest, and you could be cut out entirely. It's risky, and we don't recommend it for you.

We have no doubt that your ex-wife has influenced her son and his wife. But if you want a relationship with your grandson, you need to tolerate his parents and be civil to them. Perhaps in time they will see how much their child loves you and will warm up. We hope so.

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What gets me is the extreme pettiness of leaving $20 to his son in his will. Even leaving nothing would be less petty.

Also, I doubt the son said anything more horrible than "my son is cold and ruthless, and also extremely disrespectful, and he's caused me a ton of pain and anguish". But hey, cheer up, Grandpa! Maybe your son is the product of one of your wife's many infidelities!

There is a long-standing urban legend that the only way to disinherit a child is to leave them a nominal amount, otherwise they can sue for a share on the basis that they were accidentally excluded, and often win. (This is wrong - saying "I leave X $0" works just as well - but a lot of people still believe it, so it might be that.) But honestly, it's fairly petty either way.

I am tempted to give the advice that if he really does want to spend time with the grandson, given the family dynamics we see here, his best bet is probably to leverage the inheritance and hint hint that the grandson might get something substantial if he gets to spend time with Grandpa.

I mean it's bad advice but given what we see of this family in the letter it sounds like about the level of cooperation they're used to.

And if it doesn't work then, well, he'll have learned that his son is a better man than he is.

Edited 2019-08-15 16:57 (UTC)

No one in this family sounds like much of a prize.

Well, I'm rooting for Team Son. Maybe he's struggling to free himself from both his parents so his own son can have a better life.

Parental allienation is a thing? but this dude doesn't sound so awesome. He can't see his infant grandchild without seeing his son; that much is obvious. Perhaps he could go enjoy his money far away from the family that doesn't much like him.

I prefer to distance myself from him, but I would like to have a relationship with my grandson.

Dude, do you expect the 2yo to reach out to you on his own? Good luck with that. Try offering the kid $20.

If he’s using his will to settle petty grudges, I feel bad for his executor.

FTR, even those very few states that are "sympathetic to grandparents' rights'" (a word I would not, personally use, given that it implies something fundamental that all humans should have in the absence of a very compelling reason) define them very narrowly. They exist almost exclusively when the parent who provides the connection between grandparent and child has either died, is incarcerated, or has lost parental rights. In other words, there's really no state in the U.S. that's going to give this grandparent access to their grandson against the wishes of that grandparent's offspring.

And I agree with others. I keep linking there, but I keep thinking of Issendai's "Missing Missing Reason." This parent would know the cause if they would face it.

I thought that "grandparent rights" also came into play sometimes if the grandparents had been acting in a parental role for quite some time and the parents now wanted to end all contact - say, if Mom left the kids for Grandma to raise for 7 years, but then blew back into their lives and wanted to move cross-country.

Oh dear, something like that happened to my classmate in elementary school. Her mother had three children on her own, and after every pregnancy left the kid with their grandmother, virtually as newborns. Then, when my classmate was around eleven, she got married and took them all to live with her, which did wonders to the children's mental health, since all of them had seen her maybe two times on their lives and called the grandmother 'mom'.

That's awful.

Even more considering here in Argentina there's nothing like 'grandparent rights', even if the parents are abusive. I work in law, and I've tired of seeing desperate grandparents warning the authorities their grandchildren were at serious risk, to no avail.

I think that falls more under general custodial issues than specifically "grandparents' rights." I suspect they'd receive the same consideration that, say, an aunt who'd had custody of the kids for a decade.

That may be the case.

That updated will, which Granpa is probably discussing publicly with anyone who will listen and many who don't want to know, confirms that the son and daughter-in-law are right to keep the child away from him.

It's hard for me to imagine how a parent who has a good relationship with their adult child could lose it without there being more going on than just someone badmouthing them.

I mean, I don't want to jump to conclusions about who's at fault, but the situation doesn't make much sense as it is - too much has been left out. That combined with the pettiness of leaving his son $20 in the will, makes it seem like maybe the LW has contributed to this situation more than he admits. It's also strange to me that this man doesn't want to recover his relationship with his son at all, even though he thinks his son has been manipulated. If I had been alienated from a loved family member because of someone else's lies the very first thing I would want advice on is how to reconcile.

It does remind me a lot of issendai's observations about how abusive parents have huge gaps in their stories about how their children became estranged from them. Maybe that's not what's going on and the letter is just poorly written, it happens sometimes.

When some men experience a bad marriage, sometimes they think that justifies being a terrible parent and leave the whole job to the 'guilty' party, and then act surprised when the children take the side of the parent who was there for them. Also, badmouthing someone's mother is no way to earn warm feelings from someone, even if you're their father.

I'm missing the missing reasons for the estrangement.

Also: $20 is like the assholery of those 5 x $1 notes on the table which are the visual reminder that the white man sitting at the table is god to you and you shall treat him as such that he may be beneficent towards you.

*grr*

Throw out the entire grandfather.