Shockingly good advice from Hariette

[conuly]

DEAR HARRIETTE: My brother and I were raised in the same household by the same parents, yet as adults we have two very different views of our father. I see my dad as someone who worked hard, showed up in the ways he could and consistently supported us throughout our lives. I'm deeply grateful for him and everything he's done. My brother, on the other hand, seems to carry a lot of resentment. Whenever the subject of our dad comes up, he focuses on his shortcomings and disappointments, often listing ways he feels let down or overlooked. Listening to this has become exhausting and painful for me. It feels like he's erasing the good and ignoring the sacrifices our dad made, and I can't help but hear it as ungratefulness. At the same time, I don't want to dismiss my brother's experience or silence his truth just because it differs from mine. How do I respect his feelings without sitting through what feels like constant criticism of someone I love? -- Oh, Brother

DEAR OH, BROTHER: Tell your brother you are sorry that his experience with your father was so bad. Remind him that yours was different and that it's hard for you to hear his constant attacks on your father. If your dad is still around, suggest that he speak to him directly, but leave you out of it. He may also want to work with a therapist to deal with his feelings about your father.

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Comments

[conuly]

Every time Hariette manages to not totally flub an answer I feel like cheering. It's just so hard for her!

And yeah, this is close to what I'd say. Close to what any reasonable person would say, actually, though I'd advise less talk about how their experiences are different, which would invite uncomfortable discussion. Either your experiences were different, and now Brother wants you to understand that this is terrible, or they weren't and Brother will earnestly try to convince you that your childhood sucked.

There's no winning. The goal is to avoid more discussion, not go to new and even worse places. Just stick to "I get that you have your reasons, and I don't want to argue with you, but I can't talk about Dad with you anymore" and, if that doesn't work, you can go back to my old standby of "This sounds like something you should bring up with your therapist".

All that having been said, I always feel like comments about gratitude - or, more precisely, ingratitude - in connection with ones parents are, if not quite a red flag, certainly a yellow one. Children can't take care of themselves, and there's something decidedly a bit off about expecting adults to be grateful that their parents did everything they were socially, morally, and legally obligated to do and that nobody ever had to call social services.

But that doesn't belong as an answer to this question, it's just stray thoughts.

[cimorene]

Yeah, the "gratitude" made me think LW needs therapy too.

[conuly]

The only thing more concerning is when they say, with no irony, "I had the best mom/dad ever".

If you're older than five, that automatically makes me raise an eyebrow. The last person who said that to me said it in response to my comment that their father telling them "nothing belongs to you, not even your clothes or school supplies" was terribly abusive and not something they should advise other people do to their children. "Oh, no, my siblings and I all agree he was the best" was not exactly the rejoinder he thought it was.

Most adults, even those whose parents really were wonderful, do see them as actual nuanced people, not coffee mug slogans. It's always worrisome when somebody just... doesn't.

[cimorene]

Good point. These seem to be related somehow to me, although the gratitude thing is in a way less extreme since it seems to be a bit defensive and have therefore preemptively admitted the parent wasn't perfect. But they're both sort of pat phrases designed to short-circuit any real comparison, analysis, or criticism.

[ysobel]

Especially gratitude for "sacrifices". Like, if dad sacrificed by spending long hours at work, and one of the brother's complaints is that dad was always working and never had time to spend with him, "you should be grateful he sacrificed his time to make sure the family had money" ... isn't it.

It makes me wonder if LW /actually/ feels deeply grateful, or if they think they /should/ and accepting the flaws might crumble their belief that Dad Was Amazing ... that dad's behavior stemmed from choices that could have been made differently ... etc

[matsushima]

Every time Hariette manages to not totally flub an answer I feel like cheering. It's just so hard for her!
This got me wondering if bad advice isn't part of the job because it keeps people outraged (or, at least, annoyed) and reading/commenting/sharing. "Would you believe what Harriette said?!" gets more eyeballs on ads, probably.

(I was thinking, You're right, she really is bad at this… I give OK advice. How do I get her job? but then I realized, "bad at this" might be her job.)

[ashbet]

As someone who had a very different experience of our parents than my brother did (mine was abusive, they had the scapegoat/golden child dynamic going on), I think this is decent advice.

My brother is aware that my experience has been very different, but I don’t think he really understands it (and I don’t belabor it with him.)

But he’s definitely not the person that I should talk to about negative experiences, although it’s going to be interesting to see what happens after my mother passes, whenever that happens.

[matsushima]

As someone who had a very different experience of our parents than my brother did (mine was abusive, they had the scapegoat/golden child dynamic going on), I think this is decent advice.
I was thinking, this is the situation in which LW should be open to hearing about how things were different for them. I would want to know if it wasn't just "Mom and Dad were older and more laid back by the time they had me" (or whatever) but "Mom and Dad abused or neglected me," especially knowing that abusers do this on purpose - present as friendly, supportive, thoughtful, etc., to the people they aren't abusing to cover up the abuse.

[lilysea]

People can genuinely have different experiences, especially if

a) one child is male and one child is female and there is sexism

b) one child is sporty/extroverted and one child is bookish/introverted and the parent rewards one and punishes the other

c) there is a significant age gap

d) the parents access to money changed a lot.

My grandmother was very very cold and very very very critical of her older grandchildren, but apparently quite warm and loving and nurturing to her much younger grandchildren -

it was very weird being at her funeral hearing the younger grandchildren [who were teenagers at the time of the funeral] talk about how loving/nurturing their grandma had been and how much they would miss her while the older grandchildren were either thinking

"ding dong the wicked witch is dead"

or had skipped the funeral altogether despite living in the same city.