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So much estrangement
1. Dear Eric: I (64) have a sibling from whom I distance myself, but he (77) keeps poking the bear. We have never been close, and I have no desire to tolerate his insults.
He always had digs, nasty comments, insults. I would walk away and avoid him until he left. As years went by, I avoided him, but our mom would always insist on a family dinner. Now he was good at saving face, no comments when mom or other family members were around but the moment we were stuck in the same room, insults flew.
I was a constant support for my mom until she passed. I figured I was done with him, too. Well now he’s trying to reach out to me. I have responded with “not gonna happen” and I wrote out all the grievances with details. Now he's been whining to my other brother (70) that I'm mean to him and does not understand why I hate him. Brother #2 had no idea this was happening in my life. I explained to #2 and gave a few excerpts, ones that really hurt. How can I get past this?
– No Longer Insulted
Dear No Longer: It’s telling that your brother chose to, in your telling, whine to your other brother rather than try to clear the air with you. Even if he didn’t agree with a single word of your letter, the natural thing to do is say, “I didn’t realize you felt this way. Can we talk about it?”
Because he hasn’t done this, it’s hard to take his desire to reach out seriously. This isn’t to say that he’s not genuine. I have no way of knowing. But relationships aren’t jukeboxes; you don’t just plunk in a quarter and have a nice, family dinner pop out.
You ask how you can get past this. Part of the solution is accepting that you didn’t get the support from your family that you needed and that wasn’t fair. Your brother may have been good at putting up a front, but over the years someone must have seen something in him or in your avoidance. This isn’t putting the blame on them; your brother is responsible for what he did. But there’s likely a part of you that wants someone to acknowledge what happened.
If you don’t want to hash this out with your brother (and I can see why you wouldn’t), you might have to give yourself permission to disengage. You’ve responded and given him your reasons for not wanting to connect. He may not like it, but you don’t have to make it OK for him.
Link one
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2. Dear Eric: Twenty years ago, my husband’s brother and his wife let us know they were going no contact with us. They said it was permanent. When we asked the reasons, we heard we are insensitive and had hurt their feelings beyond repair.
They stopped contact between us and their 3-year-old son and their baby at that time. They said contact with us would damage their children. Attempts to apologize to them for offenses we barely understand didn’t work.
Five years ago, at a family wedding, my brother-in-law spoke with my husband but snubbed me to my face. He wouldn’t even say hello. Now another family wedding is scheduled next year. I have developed close relationships with others in the extended family but dread dealing with these relatives again. I’m thinking of simply saying hello if I see them and letting it go at that. Any advice will be taken to heart, I am struggling and it’s a year away.
– Contact with No Contact
Dear Contact: It’s clear that the pain from this estrangement is still a powerful force in your life and I’m sorry. Not being able to have a resolving conversation – even if that conversation leads to the end of a relationship – keeps an emotional wound open. It can be disempowering and frustrating.
As you prepare for this next wedding, think about the reality of your relationship in the present (or lack thereof) and what your ideal interaction would be, given those parameters. A simpler way of putting it: all things being equal, you’d want to have a conversation, but things are not equal so what would feel best.
If I could offer a gentle nudge: given the snubbing and their 20 years of estrangement, for you the ideal might be no interaction at all. Think about the needs you have – you want to feel safe emotionally at this wedding. Even saying hello might result in bruised feelings or worse. However, if you decide that the healthiest thing to do might be focusing on the relationships you have with other relatives and enjoying the wedding with them, you’ll go into the event with achievable expectations.
Link two
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3. Dear Eric: My son is turning 40 on December 22. My husband and I are at a quandary as to how to celebrate him.
There have been issues between my husband and him over things from his childhood. We did a special trip for his older brother when he turned 40 and would like to do something special for this son's 40th as well.
Our daughter-in-law has made special plans for him and we are not included. I understand that, but I need some ideas as to how to celebrate this extra special year without rocking the boat.
I love my son with all my heart, as I do all my children, and want his 40th birthday to be memorable in a positive way. Any suggestions?
– Mom Who Wants to Celebrate
Dear Mom: The issues your son and your husband are having may be an obstacle, but they aren’t insurmountable. And the thing that can get them on the path to resolution is the same thing that can get you answers about how to celebrate your son: open communication.
It’s not within your purview to try to fix things between them, but you have your own relationship with your son and so I’d encourage you to reach out and tell him what you told me: you want to celebrate him, you know things are difficult, and you’re looking for options.
This is deceptively simple and it’s something that all of us so often neglect to do. It can feel awkward to acknowledge tension in a relationship or to ask someone what they want or how they want to feel valued, but that kind of vulnerability is the cornerstone of healthy communication.
Your son may not have a concrete idea about what you can do to celebrate him; that’s OK, too. But by bringing it up, you introduce the idea that you want to celebrate him, that he’s important to you, and that you’re putting his needs first here. That’s going to go a long way.
Your celebration with your son may not end up happening for the actual 40 th birthday, but by laying the groundwork now, you keep the lines of communication open for a meaningful celebration when everyone is ready.
Link three
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4. Dear Eric: I've just turned 40 this past year. The last 15 years I was in a horrible drug addiction. I lied and hurt and did terrible things to a lot of people, especially my family.
About eight years ago they officially disowned me. Understandable.
I've cleaned up and got my act together six years ago. At first, I tried to force my way back into their lives, which all refuted. I lashed out, said horrible things and stopped trying to be in their lives. My mom will stop by on my birthday for 10 minutes or so and drop a card off at Christmas. As for my two older brothers and my father, it’s radio silence.
I guess what I'm asking is, what do I do to fix this and fast, as I said I've turned 40 this year, my parents are both 70. Time is running out, and I couldn't imagine living my life without some kind of acceptance from my father. Or knowing he did or does love me.
My heart breaks at the thought, but this is a real pickle. How can I fix a problem when the ones I need to fix it with won't talk to me? Do I just keep ignoring their existence and put on this façade that I don’t care to my wife and 4-year-old son? What picture am I painting to my son, as he's been guilty by association you could say as he has never spent time with his grandparents or uncles or even my nieces and nephews?
– Discombobulated
Dear Discombobulated: There’s a saying in some recovery communities – perhaps you’ve heard it – time takes time. This means that you accumulate sober days one at a time; there’s no fast track to long-term recovery, unfortunately. Similarly, there is no fast track to healing years of hurt and distrust. This can be hard to accept. It may feel like you’re trapped in your old self and your old actions. But you have to accumulate days in your new way of life one at a time, too.
If you’re in a recovery program, like Narcotics Anonymous or SMART Recovery, keep working it. Talk to your sponsor or peer support group about your desire to make amends to your relatives and mend those relationships. Ask yourself if you’ve fully acknowledged and apologized for the things that you did during active addiction. If not, a letter doing so is a good place to start.
I know this causes you a lot of pain, and possibly shame. But you’re not your past and you’re not the worst things you’ve done. Let your wife know what you’re really feeling. Continuing to put up a façade will only hurt your relationship and could endanger your sobriety. Tell the truth. That’s how things change, little by little.
Link four
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5. Dear Annie: Almost 15 years ago, my older sister removed me from her life after a series of messy arguments. At the time, she just stopped taking my calls and waited for me to leave family functions before going. She told our three siblings and mother that she didn't want me in her life. She likely gave them reasons but never allowed anyone to tell me.
When she ghosted me, I was heartbroken. I bugged everyone for years, asking how she was, crying about how much I missed her. I made many attempts to reconnect that were met with silence or warnings from family that she was still angry at me, but no one could ever say for what.
A few times, she asked our oldest sister to bring my kids for her to see them without me or my husband. My husband refused because he has never met her. I agreed with him.
Recently, I came to the conclusion that my sister removing me from her life was a blessing. She was toxic, and our relationship is a long history of cruelty on her part and a lack of boundaries mixed with codependency on mine. I told our oldest sister just that.
Mere days after that conversation with my oldest sister, my estranged sister messaged my teenage children on social media. She told them she was their aunt and that just because she and I don't get along doesn't mean she shouldn't have a relationship with them.
I responded by telling her she made the choice 15 years ago that we aren't family, that it was a blessing and she needs to leave my kids alone. Then I blocked her on their accounts.
She responded by sending my husband -- who she's never met or spoken to -- a message for me and then blocking him. Her argument was that I had played the victim for 15 years, that I was hateful and didn't support her. She said that I was using my kids as leverage. She called me toxic and stated that she was disappointed I didn't make any efforts to know her kids. She also stated repeatedly that I had been talking badly about her to everyone during the last 15 years.
I am very confused at this point. I don't know what she's been told for 15 years about what I've said because no one has told me anything. If I am toxic, why would she want me to have a relationship with her kids?
I believe I'm doing the right thing by keeping my teenagers away from her because I know how she treated me throughout our childhood and young adult years. She is not a safe person.
My siblings, their spouses and kids all seem to love her and have great relationships with her. It feels like most of the time, though, that if I don't reach out to them, I don't hear from them at all.
I'm now questioning if I should remove my three siblings from my life, too, as it sounds like they have been telling her I'm saying things. They've also been completely complacent in her alienation of me. -- Confused in Kansas
Dear Confused: You and your sister are, quite clearly, not on the same page. And how could you be, after you spent the last 15 years avoiding each other? You probably have completely different stories about how your relationship got to the place it's at now.
Your other siblings seem caught in the middle of a confusing situation, and it seems that nobody knows how to handle it. Rather than cutting them off, too, or using them to play a game of telephone, reach out to your estranged sister directly. Request an honest, frank conversation. Your sister certainly owes you that, especially if she wants to form relationships with your children.
It sounds like there is a lot of hurt on both sides, and hopefully, with the help of a good counselor, you and your estranged sister can move past the toxicity and arrive at a place of civility, for the sake of your children if nothing else.
Link five
He always had digs, nasty comments, insults. I would walk away and avoid him until he left. As years went by, I avoided him, but our mom would always insist on a family dinner. Now he was good at saving face, no comments when mom or other family members were around but the moment we were stuck in the same room, insults flew.
I was a constant support for my mom until she passed. I figured I was done with him, too. Well now he’s trying to reach out to me. I have responded with “not gonna happen” and I wrote out all the grievances with details. Now he's been whining to my other brother (70) that I'm mean to him and does not understand why I hate him. Brother #2 had no idea this was happening in my life. I explained to #2 and gave a few excerpts, ones that really hurt. How can I get past this?
– No Longer Insulted
Dear No Longer: It’s telling that your brother chose to, in your telling, whine to your other brother rather than try to clear the air with you. Even if he didn’t agree with a single word of your letter, the natural thing to do is say, “I didn’t realize you felt this way. Can we talk about it?”
Because he hasn’t done this, it’s hard to take his desire to reach out seriously. This isn’t to say that he’s not genuine. I have no way of knowing. But relationships aren’t jukeboxes; you don’t just plunk in a quarter and have a nice, family dinner pop out.
You ask how you can get past this. Part of the solution is accepting that you didn’t get the support from your family that you needed and that wasn’t fair. Your brother may have been good at putting up a front, but over the years someone must have seen something in him or in your avoidance. This isn’t putting the blame on them; your brother is responsible for what he did. But there’s likely a part of you that wants someone to acknowledge what happened.
If you don’t want to hash this out with your brother (and I can see why you wouldn’t), you might have to give yourself permission to disengage. You’ve responded and given him your reasons for not wanting to connect. He may not like it, but you don’t have to make it OK for him.
Link one
2. Dear Eric: Twenty years ago, my husband’s brother and his wife let us know they were going no contact with us. They said it was permanent. When we asked the reasons, we heard we are insensitive and had hurt their feelings beyond repair.
They stopped contact between us and their 3-year-old son and their baby at that time. They said contact with us would damage their children. Attempts to apologize to them for offenses we barely understand didn’t work.
Five years ago, at a family wedding, my brother-in-law spoke with my husband but snubbed me to my face. He wouldn’t even say hello. Now another family wedding is scheduled next year. I have developed close relationships with others in the extended family but dread dealing with these relatives again. I’m thinking of simply saying hello if I see them and letting it go at that. Any advice will be taken to heart, I am struggling and it’s a year away.
– Contact with No Contact
Dear Contact: It’s clear that the pain from this estrangement is still a powerful force in your life and I’m sorry. Not being able to have a resolving conversation – even if that conversation leads to the end of a relationship – keeps an emotional wound open. It can be disempowering and frustrating.
As you prepare for this next wedding, think about the reality of your relationship in the present (or lack thereof) and what your ideal interaction would be, given those parameters. A simpler way of putting it: all things being equal, you’d want to have a conversation, but things are not equal so what would feel best.
If I could offer a gentle nudge: given the snubbing and their 20 years of estrangement, for you the ideal might be no interaction at all. Think about the needs you have – you want to feel safe emotionally at this wedding. Even saying hello might result in bruised feelings or worse. However, if you decide that the healthiest thing to do might be focusing on the relationships you have with other relatives and enjoying the wedding with them, you’ll go into the event with achievable expectations.
Link two
3. Dear Eric: My son is turning 40 on December 22. My husband and I are at a quandary as to how to celebrate him.
There have been issues between my husband and him over things from his childhood. We did a special trip for his older brother when he turned 40 and would like to do something special for this son's 40th as well.
Our daughter-in-law has made special plans for him and we are not included. I understand that, but I need some ideas as to how to celebrate this extra special year without rocking the boat.
I love my son with all my heart, as I do all my children, and want his 40th birthday to be memorable in a positive way. Any suggestions?
– Mom Who Wants to Celebrate
Dear Mom: The issues your son and your husband are having may be an obstacle, but they aren’t insurmountable. And the thing that can get them on the path to resolution is the same thing that can get you answers about how to celebrate your son: open communication.
It’s not within your purview to try to fix things between them, but you have your own relationship with your son and so I’d encourage you to reach out and tell him what you told me: you want to celebrate him, you know things are difficult, and you’re looking for options.
This is deceptively simple and it’s something that all of us so often neglect to do. It can feel awkward to acknowledge tension in a relationship or to ask someone what they want or how they want to feel valued, but that kind of vulnerability is the cornerstone of healthy communication.
Your son may not have a concrete idea about what you can do to celebrate him; that’s OK, too. But by bringing it up, you introduce the idea that you want to celebrate him, that he’s important to you, and that you’re putting his needs first here. That’s going to go a long way.
Your celebration with your son may not end up happening for the actual 40 th birthday, but by laying the groundwork now, you keep the lines of communication open for a meaningful celebration when everyone is ready.
Link three
4. Dear Eric: I've just turned 40 this past year. The last 15 years I was in a horrible drug addiction. I lied and hurt and did terrible things to a lot of people, especially my family.
About eight years ago they officially disowned me. Understandable.
I've cleaned up and got my act together six years ago. At first, I tried to force my way back into their lives, which all refuted. I lashed out, said horrible things and stopped trying to be in their lives. My mom will stop by on my birthday for 10 minutes or so and drop a card off at Christmas. As for my two older brothers and my father, it’s radio silence.
I guess what I'm asking is, what do I do to fix this and fast, as I said I've turned 40 this year, my parents are both 70. Time is running out, and I couldn't imagine living my life without some kind of acceptance from my father. Or knowing he did or does love me.
My heart breaks at the thought, but this is a real pickle. How can I fix a problem when the ones I need to fix it with won't talk to me? Do I just keep ignoring their existence and put on this façade that I don’t care to my wife and 4-year-old son? What picture am I painting to my son, as he's been guilty by association you could say as he has never spent time with his grandparents or uncles or even my nieces and nephews?
– Discombobulated
Dear Discombobulated: There’s a saying in some recovery communities – perhaps you’ve heard it – time takes time. This means that you accumulate sober days one at a time; there’s no fast track to long-term recovery, unfortunately. Similarly, there is no fast track to healing years of hurt and distrust. This can be hard to accept. It may feel like you’re trapped in your old self and your old actions. But you have to accumulate days in your new way of life one at a time, too.
If you’re in a recovery program, like Narcotics Anonymous or SMART Recovery, keep working it. Talk to your sponsor or peer support group about your desire to make amends to your relatives and mend those relationships. Ask yourself if you’ve fully acknowledged and apologized for the things that you did during active addiction. If not, a letter doing so is a good place to start.
I know this causes you a lot of pain, and possibly shame. But you’re not your past and you’re not the worst things you’ve done. Let your wife know what you’re really feeling. Continuing to put up a façade will only hurt your relationship and could endanger your sobriety. Tell the truth. That’s how things change, little by little.
Link four
5. Dear Annie: Almost 15 years ago, my older sister removed me from her life after a series of messy arguments. At the time, she just stopped taking my calls and waited for me to leave family functions before going. She told our three siblings and mother that she didn't want me in her life. She likely gave them reasons but never allowed anyone to tell me.
When she ghosted me, I was heartbroken. I bugged everyone for years, asking how she was, crying about how much I missed her. I made many attempts to reconnect that were met with silence or warnings from family that she was still angry at me, but no one could ever say for what.
A few times, she asked our oldest sister to bring my kids for her to see them without me or my husband. My husband refused because he has never met her. I agreed with him.
Recently, I came to the conclusion that my sister removing me from her life was a blessing. She was toxic, and our relationship is a long history of cruelty on her part and a lack of boundaries mixed with codependency on mine. I told our oldest sister just that.
Mere days after that conversation with my oldest sister, my estranged sister messaged my teenage children on social media. She told them she was their aunt and that just because she and I don't get along doesn't mean she shouldn't have a relationship with them.
I responded by telling her she made the choice 15 years ago that we aren't family, that it was a blessing and she needs to leave my kids alone. Then I blocked her on their accounts.
She responded by sending my husband -- who she's never met or spoken to -- a message for me and then blocking him. Her argument was that I had played the victim for 15 years, that I was hateful and didn't support her. She said that I was using my kids as leverage. She called me toxic and stated that she was disappointed I didn't make any efforts to know her kids. She also stated repeatedly that I had been talking badly about her to everyone during the last 15 years.
I am very confused at this point. I don't know what she's been told for 15 years about what I've said because no one has told me anything. If I am toxic, why would she want me to have a relationship with her kids?
I believe I'm doing the right thing by keeping my teenagers away from her because I know how she treated me throughout our childhood and young adult years. She is not a safe person.
My siblings, their spouses and kids all seem to love her and have great relationships with her. It feels like most of the time, though, that if I don't reach out to them, I don't hear from them at all.
I'm now questioning if I should remove my three siblings from my life, too, as it sounds like they have been telling her I'm saying things. They've also been completely complacent in her alienation of me. -- Confused in Kansas
Dear Confused: You and your sister are, quite clearly, not on the same page. And how could you be, after you spent the last 15 years avoiding each other? You probably have completely different stories about how your relationship got to the place it's at now.
Your other siblings seem caught in the middle of a confusing situation, and it seems that nobody knows how to handle it. Rather than cutting them off, too, or using them to play a game of telephone, reach out to your estranged sister directly. Request an honest, frank conversation. Your sister certainly owes you that, especially if she wants to form relationships with your children.
It sounds like there is a lot of hurt on both sides, and hopefully, with the help of a good counselor, you and your estranged sister can move past the toxicity and arrive at a place of civility, for the sake of your children if nothing else.
Link five
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2. Yes, a cordial hello with no awkward and unwanted attempts to either engage further nor to create drama is the way to go. Who knows why those people don't like you, specifically, but if you don't want to justify their opinions, don't be a pain.
3. This son isn't estranged, but I'm not so sure he shouldn't be. I'm really not loving how LW elided over whatever happened as "some things in childhood" - and clearly she still stayed with Husband over whatever happened, which is implicitly choosing sides - but moreover, does she realize that she doesn't seem to think that Son's choice in how to celebrate is important too?
4. At least LW understands who is at fault here and why. This all seems like something he ought to speak about with a therapist.
5. I'm dying to get a neutral party's take on everything, but yeah - if you're estranged from your sister by your choice you don't get to turn around and try to start a conversation with their minor children whom she has complete custody of and who live with her. Yes, even if your sister is actually a heinous witch and you were totally right to cut her off. (I'm assuming that's Sister's viewpoint, anyway.)
It might be different if they had contacted her, being adolescents and nearly adults, but this? No. It's just not the way it works. You have to wait until they are adults.
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Stop saying he's guilty by association, for starters. Having no relationship with people is not necessarily a matter of guilt or punishment. You're painting the picture that people INCLUDING YOUR SON are allowed to say no to relationships with people they don't want to have relationships with.
If you want your son to have relationships with elders and with parent-aged people who are not his parents, you can help him have that kind of richness to his childhood. I recommend it! It's great! But it's worth separating your emotions about that from your emotions about your biological family and handling it as a separate issue/task. I don't miss having relationships with my mother's sisters because my mother has no sisters. People are not owed a certain number of relatives in certain configurations. Make him a good family.
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When she ghosted me, I was heartbroken. I bugged everyone for years, asking how she was, crying about how much I missed her. I made many attempts to reconnect that were met with silence or warnings from family that she was still angry at me, but no one could ever say for what.
You were in those arguments, LW. You know what you were arguing about. You may not agree that it was worth estrangement, but you know "for what."
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It's telling that Sister reached out to LW's kids, right after LW told another sibling their side of the estrangement story. I wouldn't be surprised if Sister was attempting to "set the record straight" with LW's kids, since Sister's message claimed that LW was using my kids as leverage. Nope, LW and Sister need to actually talk.
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At all!
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Attempts to apologize to them for offenses we barely understand didn’t work.
So what are the missing missing reasons? Do you blurt out things like wife is awfully pretty for a POC? Or it’s amazing she’s an engineer and will probably get promoted for being a woman? Or do you make remarks about their religious beliefs (or lack thereof)? Or… ?
The advice is good to expect/accept no connection when they see each other, but LW is hiding the ball.
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The hidden message here seems to be “how can I make my son celebrate my motherhood on the day I gave birth to him 40 years ago?”