agonyaunt | (no subject)

Dear Care and Feeding,

I’m dreading having to have a talk with my husband, “Winston,” and our 30-year-old son, “Nick.” Nick moved in with us a year ago. The move was necessary to get him out of a dangerous relationship, and Winston agreed beforehand, although he implied he expected it to be a temporary situation. Now my husband has built up resentment against Nick over the last year because he hasn’t taken steps to move out. But I understand why Nick hasn’t moved out: We live in a resort area, where rent is atrociously high and places to rent are scarce.

Nick works about 60 hours a week at a decent-paying job, so he isn’t home much. He contributes to household expenses, brings home food from work, helps take care of pets, and if asked, will generally help out with other things. Could he do more? Of course, he could, but he’s not trashing the house, taking drugs, playing loud music at all hours, or being rude and disrespectful.

Here’s the things Winston resents: He and Nick’s dog hate each other, and the dog barks at Winn when he passes Nick’s room. The dog is old and grouchy, and was abused by Nick’s former roommate. Nick works late and comes home around midnight, which disturbs Winston’s sleep. Nick is forgetful (ADHD) and often needs reminders to complete tasks, but Winston thinks he should only have to say something once.

This all leads to Winston being resentful and snippy, which makes Nick defensive, and then we have a big blow-up where both say hurtful things. These blow-ups have led to Nick trying to leave in the middle of the night after being in an accident (on crutches, no car, and no phone, near freezing outside). I’ve had to physically step between them and tell Winn to back off and shut up to keep it from getting physical.

My husband now deals with all of this by not making any requests directly to Nick (he asks me to tell him), and venting to me, which makes me feel like I’m constantly caught in the middle (suggesting he talk directly to Nick would lead to more blow ups). But, I understand Winston’s frustration. This is not what we planned for retirement! However, there’s no way I could be content knowing my son was living in subpar housing or with dangerous, untrustworthy people like he was before he moved in with us.

I need to get these two to get along. Nick needs to step up a bit more, and Winston needs to be more patient and understanding—before I go crazy or he blows up again and Nick ends up walking out and living in his car. Where do I go from here?

—In the Middle and on Eggshells

Dear in the Middle,

I really feel for you wanting to keep your son at home and protect him from bad roommates and bad apartments, but it’s clear to me that the only solution to this predicament—the predicament being, your husband not wanting your son in the house—is for Nick to move out.

You wrote that Nick’s options are either to continue to live with you or live in his car, but he has other choices: He could live with roommates (not all roommates will be like his old roommates, many good people need to split rent); he could move to a more affordable area and commute to his job; he could move to an even more affordable area and get a new job. He is a 30-year-old, gainfully employed man—these things are all possibilities for him. For the past year, he hasn’t had any reason to seriously pursue them—they’re all expensive unknowns, and he’s got a free(ish) sure thing in your home. But this isn’t working for your husband, and because of that, it isn’t working for you. So the solution has to be that Nick moves out.

First, talk to your husband about a timeline. Thirty days is the absolute minimum notice you can give Nick, but 60 or 90 days would be kinder (or even longer, if your husband is amenable). If you’re able, I do think you and your husband should be prepared to give Nick some money to help with his move, especially if you are giving him just a few months notice. Hopefully he’s been able to save some during the time he’s lived with you, but first month’s rent, last month’s rent, and deposit add up. Talk to your husband about what’s possible. Once the two of you have settled on a fair plan, sit down with Nick and tell him what you’ve agreed. (It’d be nice if your husband and you can do this together, but given the vibes, you should probably do it alone.) You can tell Nick that you’ve been very happy to have him back home, but it was always meant to be temporary, and it’s time to start thinking about next chapters. Then tell him what you’re able to do to help him get back on his feet. He might be upset! He might feel that what you’re doing is unfair. But you can’t keep living with two men who can’t get along.

My hunch is that once Nick starts his apartment search in earnest and your husband can see a light at the end of the tunnel, he’ll warm up to Nick once again. But maybe not. If your husband keeps complaining to you, interrupt him calmly and let him know that Nick is moving out, there’s a plan, and you’re not able to listen to him any longer. There’s a clock counting down on this untenable situation. What a relief. Good luck.

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The comments over at Slate are almost universally on Winston's side, but honestly, I'd get rid of the husband before the kid here.

(I really wonder how the two managed when Nick was a kid!)

I also wonder how they managed through Nick's childhood, because like...if the domestic violence aspect of this is new, that's data?

I have a friend whose grandfather was never once violent with his wife and kids...until one day his dementia had progressed too far and he hit his wife. His kids (ages late 30s-early 50s) sprang into action getting their mom somewhere safe FIRST and then getting their dad a full medical workup. Which was crucial, because when he was his right self he would have never.

It doesn't sound to me like that's the case here, but if it is, it is definitely worth handling for everyone's sake. Before it gets even worse.

Yeah. “The only option is for Nick to move out”, my arse. Fuck Winston.

Winston sounds willfully unbending (his sleep is disturbed? Unless he's one of those people who must sleep 8 hours through to feel rested, well, why can't he go back to sleep?).. Also...

Nick is forgetful (ADHD) and often needs reminders to complete tasks, but Winston thinks he should only have to say something once.

I suspect the issues here go back to Nick's childhood. Meep.

Winston sounds like a real ass. I'll bet the dog can sense it. I'd prefer the "kid" as a housemate, too.

Same. Winston sounds like a nightmare of a father. The bit about "thinking Nick should only need to be told something once" despite Nick being ADHD and clearly wanting to do the thing reminds me of my father just willfully refusing to acknowledge my own AuDHD. Which is a shitty thing to do, and borders on abusive (can BE abusive).

I’ve had to physically step between them and tell Winn to back off and shut up to keep it from getting physical.

I feel like this crucial sentence means that the advice given here is completely inadequate.

"My husband physically threatens our son." "He'll probably be nicer if your son shows progress toward moving out!" what. no. WHAT. NO.

DO NOT LIVE WITH ADULT PEOPLE WHO GET IN PHYSICAL ALTERCATIONS WITH FAMILY MEMBERS. RUN.

This seems like inadequate advice for this level of situation. Why is there no suggestion of therapy? Why is there no discussion with Nick about things he might do differently also to minimize friction? Could the dogs be kept apart more? Could Winston put all his requests in email, so the son can refer back to them instead of relying on memory? Can there be more carpeting or noise minimizing stuff so late arrivals are less disruptive?

This is awful and probably the tip of the iceberg.

Nick is still living with "dangerous, untrustworthy people." Well, one such, anyway.

There are some missing reasons for dad's attitude in this, some of which are visibly missing (LW doesn't state them explicitly but they're clear from what she does say) - Nick "contributes to household expenses" so presumably he doesn't pay rent; Nick "generally" does household tasks if specifically asked, so presumably doesn't consider himself responsible for regular housework, and even if asked, often doesn't do it (often enough to be annoying); Nick wakes his dad up *every time* he comes home from work (as someone who struggles terribly with going back to sleep once woken up, this would drive me ballistic) but LW doesn't say anything about any efforts he may or may not make in order to be quieter about coming in; Nick "helps take care of pets" but we don't learn what pets there are apart from Nick's dog; Nick's dog "hates" the dad (so is aggressive towards him?) and barks aggressively if he even passes the door - Nick's father appears to be sensitive to noise, since two of his complaints about Nick's presence are noise-related, but LW doesn't say anything about this, because she regards his complaints as unreasonable. She's full of justifications for the behaviour of Nick (he's got ADHD!) and the dog (it was abused!) but has none for her husband. And frankly, I think "he’s not trashing the house, taking drugs, playing loud music at all hours, or being rude and disrespectful" is the absolute minimum to expect from anyone staying in someone else's house for one night, let alone indefinitely.

So we have someone not pulling his weight either financially or in terms of housework, who is not considerate of the fact that his father is apparently sensitive to noise and who is not actively seeking a way to move out. I don't think Nick's mother's evident partiality for her son is helping matters, either. She clearly also wants him to stay forever and wants dad to suck it up. In spite of the way she signs off, none of this letter is about "How can I get Nick to pull his weight?", it's all about "Look how unreasonable my husband is!"

I'm also side-eying Nick's "attempt" to leave ("in the middle of the night after being in an accident (on crutches, no car, and no phone, near freezing outside)" - that is the action of someone who expects to be stopped, and sure enough, he was. I note that he didn't find the situation so intolerable that after being "prevented" from leaving, he started looking into realistic alternatives (and here I side with the Agony Aunt, there are options between "lives here forever" and "lives in his car", even if LW doesn't want to contemplate them).

As for the physical violence, LW certainly makes it sound as if dad was the one who was at risk of getting violent, but telling one person in a quarrel to "shut up and back off" is ambiguous as to which of them was going to explode - the dad because he was getting angrier and angrier or Nick because his dad was getting in his face. On balance I do think it was the dad, but LW is so biased towards Nick that I'm kind of surprised she opted to be so weaselly about assigning blame.

Anyway, to sum up, I don't think it's unreasonable for the dad not to want to have an inconsiderate, freeloading housemate living in his house forever, and I do think it's unreasonable of Nick not to be making plans for a future in which he doesn't impose on his parents, and I think LW is wholeheartedly enabling Nick in his quest not to have to live independently.

Edited 2025-12-17 05:49 (UTC)