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Thanksgiving
1. Dear Eric: For the last 45 years or so I’ve hosted Thanksgiving for my family. I’ve had as many as 25 people. My sister has two sons, and they’ve always stayed with me. Quite frankly, it’s now an issue. Only one son comes but he now has three sons of his own, ranging from 22 to 8. My sister also stays with me. They come on Wednesday and stay till Friday. It’s a lot considering all I have to do for the holiday.
I know if I say something about a hotel, they will be highly insulted.
My daughter also comes and stays, but that’s different. She’s one person and my daughter. Advice?
– Overwhelmed
Dear Overwhelmed: I don’t want to sound flippant here, but if they’re insulted by you stating that you’re at capacity and can’t host six (maybe more) people, that’s on them. The solution is not to continue to bear the burden.
Special occasions, especially at holidays, often fall on one person’s shoulders – by default and by deflection. Often, it’s a woman, reflecting some family members’ assumptions that it’s her responsibility and she wants to do it. You may be or have been happy to host, and you can also be worn out from hosting now. Both can be true, and your family can and should hear that.
It's not too late to talk to your nephew and your sister and say that, after 45 years, Thanksgiving is outpacing you and you need the family to take a greater role in making it happen. It’s important that the work you’re doing not go unseen. Holidays don’t just happen. By saying, “this is a lot of work; can you help me host it?” you offer your family the chance to step up, which can enrich their experience of the holiday. If they state that it just won’t be the same if they’re not staying with you, then ask them how they can make the experience of hosting easier on you. Maybe that means taking on some more meal preparation, or hiring a cleaning service to come reset things, or shortening the trip. There are a lot of possibilities, and they should be the ones coming up with them and presenting them to you. It’s not your responsibility to make this work. You’re already making it work. It’s their responsibility to make it work for you, too.
Link one
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2. Dear Prudence,
My brother has good relationships with everybody but refuses to be part of Thanksgiving, Christmas, or large group events because he says that while he loves us individually, we’re a nightmare collectively. I get it and, frankly, I would love to do the same—my parents and wider family are lovely but bicker and squabble when they get together, particularly over politics, which gets ever uglier. But I also know that my family finds his attitude deeply hurtful. I’m stuck between wanting to opt out myself or trying to persuade him to change his mind because I can see how sad it makes my mother. My instinct is to stay out of it; we’re all adults. But I also feel a bit jealous and miffed. Is there a way forward?
—Stuck in the Middle
Dear Stuck in the Middle,
You’re jealous because your brother has the peace that comes with figuring out what he can control (his own holiday plans) and not managing others’ feelings or trying to persuade anyone to behave differently, knowing that if the family truly wants his company badly enough, they’ll put an end to the ugly bickering. You can have that peace, too! If you can’t bring yourself to skip the miserable, argumentative holidays this year, plan some enjoyable one-on-one time with your brother and your mom instead.
Link two
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3. Dear A.J.,
My husband’s brother, “George,” is a recovering alcoholic. He’s been sober for eight months. The thing is, Thanksgiving is coming up, and we’ve always served wine with dinner.
My husband thinks it would be completely inappropriate for us to do so this year because George is coming over, and he doesn’t want him to be “tempted.” I understand that George is going to be battling his alcoholism for the rest of his life, but at the same time, he can’t expect the world around him to be dry everywhere he goes and needs to be able to navigate settings where alcohol is served. This is turning into a sticking point between my husband and me. Is my husband right? Am I being thoughtless?
—Warring Over Wine
Dear Warring Over Wine,
I’m assuming that other guests will be attending this blessed holiday feast and that not all of them are newly recovering alcoholics, because if that were the case, then, yes, I would definitely say you’re incredibly thoughtless.
But if George is the only newly sober guest at a table of 12 nonsober others, then, no, you’re not thoughtless at all: You’ve always had wine on the table at Thanksgiving, and you can and should continue to do so. As long as you don’t try to hide the wine inside a milk carton, George will be OK with it too. This is your Thanksgiving, so you can serve wine, gravy boats full of gin, Fireball mashed potatoes, whatever you want. (But I could see how those gravy boats could be seen as a little inconsiderate.)
Here’s another scenario that popped into my head and could be useful for you to ponder: If George were newly vegetarian, would you a) cook some extra green bean casserole, b) ask him to bring his own Tofurkey and offer to stick it in the oven for him, or c) ditch the turkey and neck gravy this year and instead serve 16 different types of yam dishes to make George comfortable? I believe Option A is sufficient, and you should as well.
I sympathize with George’s position, but it’s your husband’s responsibility to ask his brother if he’s uncomfortable, rather than guessing. If George has been sober for eight months, he may think he’s solid enough to hang with the family on Thanksgiving. But it could be too soon, and you’ll know only if you ask. I think it’s pretty rude to assume that others’ drinking wine will knock George off the wagon. No one wants to seem like a vibe killer.
If George does ask your husband not to serve wine with turkey this year, though, how will you react? It sounds as if you’ll be annoyed and disappointed. It’s George’s decision whether he wants to attend, but it definitely shouldn’t become a choice between his getting to dictate whether there’s wine on the table or your telling him to stay home. Make him feel welcome, but don’t make him feel as if he needs to sit in a corner at the kids’ table.
The first year of holiday sobriety is tough for some. Luckily for me, I spent my first sober Thanksgiving in rehab, among others who were away from their families and friends and far from their drugs. The local AA clubhouse volunteered to make the meals, and it was one of the best turkey dinners I’ve ever had: just pounds of turkey and mashed potatoes piled on plates. Everyone was smoking cigarettes and laughing in a way that felt exciting and new. If George is feeling lonely and left out, he can find one of those scenes and hang out there. Again, it’s on him to figure that part out.
You should seriously consider where these feelings are coming from: Is this about George potentially making the holiday uncomfortable, or is his not drinking making you feel guilty about your own drinking? Look at me, taking your inventory—my apologies. (But if you think you might have a problem, write back and let’s figure something out that works for you.)
And you’re right. The reality is that George will face temptations every single day, especially around the holidays: sparkly liquor stores on every corner, those Budweiser commercials with the horses in the snow, eggnog milkshakes at fast food joints—nowhere is safe! It’s on George to adjust accordingly and figure out what works for him to stay sober. Enjoy your turkey, drink your wine with abandon, but don’t let anyone drive home.
Link three
I know if I say something about a hotel, they will be highly insulted.
My daughter also comes and stays, but that’s different. She’s one person and my daughter. Advice?
– Overwhelmed
Dear Overwhelmed: I don’t want to sound flippant here, but if they’re insulted by you stating that you’re at capacity and can’t host six (maybe more) people, that’s on them. The solution is not to continue to bear the burden.
Special occasions, especially at holidays, often fall on one person’s shoulders – by default and by deflection. Often, it’s a woman, reflecting some family members’ assumptions that it’s her responsibility and she wants to do it. You may be or have been happy to host, and you can also be worn out from hosting now. Both can be true, and your family can and should hear that.
It's not too late to talk to your nephew and your sister and say that, after 45 years, Thanksgiving is outpacing you and you need the family to take a greater role in making it happen. It’s important that the work you’re doing not go unseen. Holidays don’t just happen. By saying, “this is a lot of work; can you help me host it?” you offer your family the chance to step up, which can enrich their experience of the holiday. If they state that it just won’t be the same if they’re not staying with you, then ask them how they can make the experience of hosting easier on you. Maybe that means taking on some more meal preparation, or hiring a cleaning service to come reset things, or shortening the trip. There are a lot of possibilities, and they should be the ones coming up with them and presenting them to you. It’s not your responsibility to make this work. You’re already making it work. It’s their responsibility to make it work for you, too.
Link one
2. Dear Prudence,
My brother has good relationships with everybody but refuses to be part of Thanksgiving, Christmas, or large group events because he says that while he loves us individually, we’re a nightmare collectively. I get it and, frankly, I would love to do the same—my parents and wider family are lovely but bicker and squabble when they get together, particularly over politics, which gets ever uglier. But I also know that my family finds his attitude deeply hurtful. I’m stuck between wanting to opt out myself or trying to persuade him to change his mind because I can see how sad it makes my mother. My instinct is to stay out of it; we’re all adults. But I also feel a bit jealous and miffed. Is there a way forward?
—Stuck in the Middle
Dear Stuck in the Middle,
You’re jealous because your brother has the peace that comes with figuring out what he can control (his own holiday plans) and not managing others’ feelings or trying to persuade anyone to behave differently, knowing that if the family truly wants his company badly enough, they’ll put an end to the ugly bickering. You can have that peace, too! If you can’t bring yourself to skip the miserable, argumentative holidays this year, plan some enjoyable one-on-one time with your brother and your mom instead.
Link two
3. Dear A.J.,
My husband’s brother, “George,” is a recovering alcoholic. He’s been sober for eight months. The thing is, Thanksgiving is coming up, and we’ve always served wine with dinner.
My husband thinks it would be completely inappropriate for us to do so this year because George is coming over, and he doesn’t want him to be “tempted.” I understand that George is going to be battling his alcoholism for the rest of his life, but at the same time, he can’t expect the world around him to be dry everywhere he goes and needs to be able to navigate settings where alcohol is served. This is turning into a sticking point between my husband and me. Is my husband right? Am I being thoughtless?
—Warring Over Wine
Dear Warring Over Wine,
I’m assuming that other guests will be attending this blessed holiday feast and that not all of them are newly recovering alcoholics, because if that were the case, then, yes, I would definitely say you’re incredibly thoughtless.
But if George is the only newly sober guest at a table of 12 nonsober others, then, no, you’re not thoughtless at all: You’ve always had wine on the table at Thanksgiving, and you can and should continue to do so. As long as you don’t try to hide the wine inside a milk carton, George will be OK with it too. This is your Thanksgiving, so you can serve wine, gravy boats full of gin, Fireball mashed potatoes, whatever you want. (But I could see how those gravy boats could be seen as a little inconsiderate.)
Here’s another scenario that popped into my head and could be useful for you to ponder: If George were newly vegetarian, would you a) cook some extra green bean casserole, b) ask him to bring his own Tofurkey and offer to stick it in the oven for him, or c) ditch the turkey and neck gravy this year and instead serve 16 different types of yam dishes to make George comfortable? I believe Option A is sufficient, and you should as well.
I sympathize with George’s position, but it’s your husband’s responsibility to ask his brother if he’s uncomfortable, rather than guessing. If George has been sober for eight months, he may think he’s solid enough to hang with the family on Thanksgiving. But it could be too soon, and you’ll know only if you ask. I think it’s pretty rude to assume that others’ drinking wine will knock George off the wagon. No one wants to seem like a vibe killer.
If George does ask your husband not to serve wine with turkey this year, though, how will you react? It sounds as if you’ll be annoyed and disappointed. It’s George’s decision whether he wants to attend, but it definitely shouldn’t become a choice between his getting to dictate whether there’s wine on the table or your telling him to stay home. Make him feel welcome, but don’t make him feel as if he needs to sit in a corner at the kids’ table.
The first year of holiday sobriety is tough for some. Luckily for me, I spent my first sober Thanksgiving in rehab, among others who were away from their families and friends and far from their drugs. The local AA clubhouse volunteered to make the meals, and it was one of the best turkey dinners I’ve ever had: just pounds of turkey and mashed potatoes piled on plates. Everyone was smoking cigarettes and laughing in a way that felt exciting and new. If George is feeling lonely and left out, he can find one of those scenes and hang out there. Again, it’s on him to figure that part out.
You should seriously consider where these feelings are coming from: Is this about George potentially making the holiday uncomfortable, or is his not drinking making you feel guilty about your own drinking? Look at me, taking your inventory—my apologies. (But if you think you might have a problem, write back and let’s figure something out that works for you.)
And you’re right. The reality is that George will face temptations every single day, especially around the holidays: sparkly liquor stores on every corner, those Budweiser commercials with the horses in the snow, eggnog milkshakes at fast food joints—nowhere is safe! It’s on George to adjust accordingly and figure out what works for him to stay sober. Enjoy your turkey, drink your wine with abandon, but don’t let anyone drive home.
Link three
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2. LW, if your family is hurt, they have your brother's phone number. If your mother is sad, she has it too. These people are all capable of communicating with Brother - and looking at this letter, it doesn't even seem like they've asked you to talk to him! So stay out of it. Manage your own relationships, and leave him to manage his.
3. The whole world cannot be made non-alcoholic, but this is not the whole world. This is this man's brother's home, during his first big holiday season after less than a year of sobriety. LW is being totally unreasonable - and leaning on "tradition" to bolster their claim doesn't help their case. The thing about traditions is that they can be changed. It used to be tradition to have wine at every Thanksgiving, and now the tradition is to do that some years. If you really can't go without the booze for one Thanksgiving (and possibly one Christmas as well) then you may need to ask yourself if you have a problem with alcohol or a problem with your loved ones. Either way, sort that out.
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when a friend of mine who's in recovery used to come for thanksgiving, we had a dry thanksgiving, every time. we didn't even think about it. We got super fancy sparkling juice blends in pretty wine bottles, and nobody complained or seem sad, because
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We wanted. To make. His life easier.
You know. Like family should try to do.
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(I have yet to find a stuffing I didn’t like, though I’ve read of some that would give me pause if I actually ran into them.)
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2. LW's brother is setting good boundaries, and LW should too. Maybe the rest of the family enjoys the bickering, but not everyone does, especially if the politics discussion veers into hateful and/or hurtful opinions. It's okay to say no because the bickering is so unpleasant it ruins the holiday. Maybe if both kids avoid the holiday, mom might realize there's a problem.
3. A dry holiday season for one year won't harm anyone, and will quite likely help BIL stay on an even keel. I do think AJ is right on this: Is this about George potentially making the holiday uncomfortable, or is his not drinking making you feel guilty about your own drinking? It's a good question and I hope LW can answer it honestly.
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I'd says TELL them they need to make the experience of hosting easier for you, LW, and give them some options, any and all of which will make it easier on you. They have to pick at least one to do AND follow through on it.
For number 2, noping out because you can't deal with the family as a horde makes perfect sense to me. There is a point where making yourself unhappy for a holiday to keep your family happy is really not worth it all.
If George were newly vegetarian, would you a) cook some extra green bean casserole, b) ask him to bring his own Tofurkey and offer to stick it in the oven for him, or c) ditch the turkey and neck gravy this year and instead serve 16 different types of yam dishes to make George comfortable? I believe Option A is sufficient, and you should as well.
Only offering vegetable sides to a vegetarian is bad hosting, and so is keeping wine on the table when hosting a newly sober guest. Wine is NOT a requirement for an enjoyable holiday meal, and if you can't figure out what to serve as a beverage instead, that sounds like a skills issue, LW.
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that are shelf-stable and come in a glass bottle that looks like a wine bottle.
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IN WHAT UNIVERSE is this equivalent to leaving wine off the table or replacing it with something nonalcoholic ?!?!?
Also why was there no suggestion to ask George what his preference would be?
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