conuly: (Default)
conuly ([personal profile] conuly) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2025-09-13 07:08 pm

(no subject)

My husband is the middle of five siblings. The three oldest were high achievers who earned advanced degrees and are now comfortably retired, living far from their hometown. The fourth, a brother, has struggled all his life. After four years in the Army, he drifted between unemployment and low-paying jobs, never able to support himself. His parents covered his expenses or let him live with them, even paying for his car while he worked as a pizza-delivery driver. He also developed substance-abuse problems.

After my husband’s father died, the brother stayed in the family home, supposedly caring for their mother but, in fact, exploiting her. He drained her accounts to feed his habit and neglected her care, and after her death he was convicted of elder abuse — something his out-of-town siblings hadn’t realized was happening. Before she died, their mother begged them not to let him be homeless.

Because the brother couldn’t maintain the house, the siblings sold it and split the proceeds. With his share, they bought him a mobile home and placed funds in a protected account, which covered rent and utilities for nearly 10 years until the money ran out. They eventually transferred the bills into his name and explained how to manage them.

He rarely communicates with the family, except when he’s in trouble. Once on his own, chaos followed. He claimed that his pizza-delivery job was enough to live on, but he missed rent, faced eviction and squandered money on predatory car loans and endless repairs. Last year, his siblings discovered that his car had been repossessed and his water had been shut off for six months. His trailer was collapsing from a leaking roof, and garbage was piled everywhere. Yet he had never asked for help. They stepped in, restored utilities, reclaimed his car, cleaned his trailer and signed him up for Social Security. But he quickly burned through a lump-sum back-pay benefit (he said his account was hacked, though he was more likely scammed). Soon after, he fell behind again, and his Social Security is now being garnished by the I.R.S.

The mobile-home park wants him out for unpaid rent and unsafe conditions. He’s clearly mentally ill, but perhaps not impaired enough for a sibling to secure guardianship. My husband and his siblings want to honor their mother’s plea to keep him housed, but contributing to his rent payments and repairing his trailer isn’t financially sustainable for them, and none of them want to take him in because he’s horrible to live with. Social services might help, but he resists cooperation and can’t manage on his own.

So they wonder: At what point do they stop trying? Are they obliged to sustain someone who refuses to sustain himself? Do they owe him the effort of seeking guardianship, or is that more than can reasonably be asked? — Name Withheld


From the Ethicist:

People are entitled to manage their own lives — if they’re capable of doing so. But it can be hard to draw a line between “managing badly” and “not being able to manage at all.” This brother-in-law can work, at least sporadically, but he cannot handle money, sustain housing or ask for help when he needs it. Add addiction into the mix, and his ability to run his own life is gravely compromised.

That naturally raises the question of guardianship, putting someone else in charge of his life. But courts, rightly, have a high bar for establishing a guardianship (or conservatorship), and in any case, it wouldn’t be a solution to the problem so much as full ownership of the problem. To be someone’s guardian is like having a child in your care. A guardian typically must oversee a ward’s housing, medical care, finances, even emotional well-being, and report regularly to a court. It’s the sort of time-consuming, intrusive, emotionally draining commitment none of your in-laws should be expected to take on.

There are still things this man’s siblings can do. They can get together to pay his rent and keep him housed, help him apply for benefits, steer him toward treatment programs, set up connections with community resources. These don’t depend on him exercising sound judgment, and they could prevent the very worst outcomes. But they can’t guarantee stability, because he may refuse assistance or sabotage it.

That leads to the looming ethical question: How much is enough? Clearly, the family isn’t going to watch him self-destruct with indifference. But they don’t have to devote their lives to a guardianship-like role that the legal system recognizes as extraordinary and rescue him endlessly from the consequences of his choices. They have already gone further than many families would. Beyond steering him toward systems of care and making sure he isn’t simply abandoned, the siblings must recognize that the life he insists on leading — or cannot help leading — is his own. They can’t be obligated to accomplish the impossible; in the philosophical saw, “ought implies can.”

Link
dine: (dandelion)

[personal profile] dine 2025-09-13 11:40 pm (UTC)(link)
wrt #2 - yeah, my eyebrow went up at that one too.

and even if it's impossible for one sibling to cover costs, surely between them they might be able to pull together enough to cover rent & utilities. have the bills come to someone else to pay would keep him housed, at least.
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)

[personal profile] redbird 2025-09-14 12:22 am (UTC)(link)
Are they also supporting the youngest sibling? All I can tell from the letter is that the sibling not appearing in this production is the youngest of five. I infer that s/he isn't a high achiever with an advanced degree who is retired comfortably, but I have no idea whether Youngest is also well-to-do. I'm also inferring that they're still alive, because otherwise I'd expect LW to have either said this sibling was dead, or not mentioned them at all.
fox: my left eye.  "ceci n'est pas une fox." (Default)

[personal profile] fox 2025-09-14 02:13 am (UTC)(link)

I concluded that the brother being supported is the husband's fourth sibling, that is, the youngest of the five children. ?

What I want to know is, how long was he scamming the fam about taking care of Mom and how did none of the sibs catch on? Ever? 🤨

castiron: cartoony sketch of owl (Default)

[personal profile] castiron 2025-09-14 02:11 am (UTC)(link)
They can probably scrape it together for a month, or for a year. But at some point the older siblings are going to have their own health issues; the roof will need replacing, and it costs four times more than it did the last time; their own kids may have personal crises, which will take priority over brother's issues.

I can absolutely imagine a retirement income that I'd consider comfortable in that it met all my needs and left a cushion for emergencies, but that doesn't mean giving up the cushion would be financially sustainable.
katiedid717: (Default)

[personal profile] katiedid717 2025-09-15 01:12 am (UTC)(link)
Re: #2, depends on the trailer park. My former boss owned a couple of trailer parks and he charged $1000-1500/mo rent for the plots; even split four ways, that adds up fast. And the longer something drags on, the less sustainable it can feel.
frenzy: (Default)

[personal profile] frenzy 2025-09-18 09:49 pm (UTC)(link)
yeah my mom lived in a trailer park for a while and her rent was significantly more than she had been paying for a proper house. (800 dollars a month (in 2020 money, pre inflation, in rural wisconsin for a trailer from the late 70s/early 80s!!!)
katiedid717: (Default)

[personal profile] katiedid717 2025-09-18 09:54 pm (UTC)(link)
You've seen stories about Peter/Ziggurat in my personal journal - in the case of his trailer parks, people owned the individual trailers and they were just paying him rent for the plot of land that they parked on. Which was usually about a 16th of an acre
topaz_eyes: (blue cat's eye)

[personal profile] topaz_eyes 2025-09-14 12:04 am (UTC)(link)
They probably should consult a family lawyer and/or a social worker to find out their options re Brother. As long as he's deemed legally competent, it's unlikely the courts will appoint a guardian for him.

I also wonder why 4 of them can't jointly afford to contribute to his rent and trailer repairs, but there may be too much back rent owed; Brother may have a lot of legal bills owing (he was convicted of elder abuse and his Social Security's being garnished); and that trailer may need replaced, not just repaired.
harpers_child: melaka fray reading from "Tales of the Slayers". (Default)

[personal profile] harpers_child 2025-09-14 03:07 am (UTC)(link)
Someone needs to talk to the VA. It's not amazing, but it's not nothing. Four years in the Army means he's possibly self-medicating for physical pain as well as mental. Depending on his assessment of health issues, substance abuse problems, and ability to work the VA may at least have a housing solution.

Psych colleges have free counseling available and I guarantee the students know how to handle substance abuse clients. (One of my siblings just finished school to be a therapist.)

This is a bitch of a situation.

Folks in my family have struggled with substance problems. There is a point where you have to stop helping if they won't stop using. But it's a bitch of a situation.
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2025-09-14 08:07 am (UTC)(link)
This is probably terrible of me but I am surprised and impressed that they are still helping him. When I was a kid this is the kind of behavior that I was told would FORCE my family to abandon me.
mrissa: (Default)

[personal profile] mrissa 2025-09-14 10:46 am (UTC)(link)
Being actually convicted of elder abuse is no small thing. Someone who's just slimy will not generally be convicted. Someone who just mooches will not generally be convicted. I'm a little surprised that when thinking of "how much is enough help," the advice columnist did not ask anything related to that. Because it is okay if there is a point where "this is my brother" is overwhelmed by "this is the person who did the following really heinous things to someone I love" in terms of how much time and energy you want to pour into him. And it's okay if people have different lines there--if one sibling has the "he's still our brother" emotion while another has "I cannot be around someone who did x, y, and z things to Mom" emotion.
lokifan: black Converse against a black background (Default)

[personal profile] lokifan 2025-09-14 12:43 pm (UTC)(link)
it's okay if people have different lines there--if one sibling has the "he's still our brother" emotion while another has "I cannot be around someone who did x, y, and z things to Mom" emotion.

Yeah, exactly. And the mum having begged them to not leave him homeless complicates that calculus even more, I suspect. I'm kind of surprised LW didn't mention any siblings being like "fuck this guy", honestly, or at least "I can't bring myself to keep rescuing the guy who abused Mom".
ofearthandstars: A single tree underneath the stars (Default)

[personal profile] ofearthandstars 2025-09-14 06:30 pm (UTC)(link)
This is such a hard situation, and I have been struggling with something similar. Working with a therapist, I know they would say that each party has the right/obligation to take care of their own mental health, determine what they are able/willing to do to help, and then set boundaries accordingly. And if the person who needs assistance has been repeatedly or egregiously abusive, well, the boundaries are allowed to be higher, because you have the right to take care of your own mental health/physical well-being. It doesn't lessen the hurt, though. One thing that struck me here is that this individual "never asked for help" and is "uncooperative". So it seems he may not want the siblings' help and/or would prefer to manage his own life (even badly) rather than feeling dependent on them. Which is also a thing that is allowed.

I think the Ethicist's advice to continue to help in other ways (if the help is wanted and they are able) and to keep directing him to community resources/treatment is pretty sound, although the availability of the latter have become more fraught, at least in the U.S.
harpers_child: melaka fray reading from "Tales of the Slayers". (Default)

[personal profile] harpers_child 2025-09-14 06:40 pm (UTC)(link)
+1