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Dear Prudence,
My husband and I are both atheists, but most of my family are extremely religious. It’s never really been an issue, but things came to a head recently when my boorish, MAGA-supporting brother-in-law expressed the opinion that our son was bound to burn in hell for being gay.
My husband was quick to respond in very strong terms and, in the course of that argument, said something to the effect that he wished my brother-in-law’s religion were the most ridiculous thing about him. My mother and sister, who were both present, leapt on this as proof that my husband held their religion in contempt and demanded an apology. He responded that if they were going to get upset by that but not about the “caveman imbecile abusing my son,” they could “f— themselves.”
Needless to say, this has created enormous drama. I agree with my husband, but I also think that it’s true that he holds large parts of my family in contempt, even though he is usually quite polite about it. I don’t think he’ll apologize (I think he’d love a permanent rift), but I don’t want this rift to persist. Is there some middle ground?
—Angry Words
Dear Angry Words,
If we were just talking about you as an unmarried single person, the answer would be simple: Start talking to your brother, sister, and mom as if everything is normal, and share tense holidays and family gatherings where you work to limit the conversation to sports (just don’t let it veer into trans athletes!) and weather (but avoid mentioning climate change or the status of the national weather service!). You may not be able to say what’s on your mind or feel fully comfortable, but you’ll have a family relationship. That’s a choice a lot of people make.
But the situation is complicated by the fact that you have a son who is gay and a husband who takes it personally when people believe that your son is going to burn in hell, and holds large parts of your family in contempt because they believe that.
I want to be very clear that “You’re going to burn in Hell because you’re gay” and “You’re a caveman imbecile for saying my son is going to burn in Hell because he’s gay” are not equally harmful statements, and they don’t cancel each other out. So please don’t give this situation the “both sides were wrong” treatment. Your brother made a hateful attack on an innocent person. Your husband stood up for your son. Did he do it nicely or respectfully? No. But clearly, he’s someone who thinks that a form of hate shouldn’t be treated more gently than other kinds of hate just because it is loosely linked to one interpretation of a particular religion. And I think he’s right.
It’s very possible that your desire to avoid a rift with your family will come across to your husband and son as though you believe your brother’s opinions are acceptable or tolerable. And that could really hurt. So talk to them about why you want to continue the relationship, what you think that will look like, how you’d like them to be involved, and how you make sense of your brother’s beliefs and attacks. Then really listen to what they say. Perhaps they don’t care and are also willing to go along to get along. But if reconciliation would hurt them—because of what it would say about your beliefs and what kind of treatment you think your son should endure for the sake of family harmony—think long and hard before you make people who care about their religion more than they care about your own child a priority.
Link
My husband and I are both atheists, but most of my family are extremely religious. It’s never really been an issue, but things came to a head recently when my boorish, MAGA-supporting brother-in-law expressed the opinion that our son was bound to burn in hell for being gay.
My husband was quick to respond in very strong terms and, in the course of that argument, said something to the effect that he wished my brother-in-law’s religion were the most ridiculous thing about him. My mother and sister, who were both present, leapt on this as proof that my husband held their religion in contempt and demanded an apology. He responded that if they were going to get upset by that but not about the “caveman imbecile abusing my son,” they could “f— themselves.”
Needless to say, this has created enormous drama. I agree with my husband, but I also think that it’s true that he holds large parts of my family in contempt, even though he is usually quite polite about it. I don’t think he’ll apologize (I think he’d love a permanent rift), but I don’t want this rift to persist. Is there some middle ground?
—Angry Words
Dear Angry Words,
If we were just talking about you as an unmarried single person, the answer would be simple: Start talking to your brother, sister, and mom as if everything is normal, and share tense holidays and family gatherings where you work to limit the conversation to sports (just don’t let it veer into trans athletes!) and weather (but avoid mentioning climate change or the status of the national weather service!). You may not be able to say what’s on your mind or feel fully comfortable, but you’ll have a family relationship. That’s a choice a lot of people make.
But the situation is complicated by the fact that you have a son who is gay and a husband who takes it personally when people believe that your son is going to burn in hell, and holds large parts of your family in contempt because they believe that.
I want to be very clear that “You’re going to burn in Hell because you’re gay” and “You’re a caveman imbecile for saying my son is going to burn in Hell because he’s gay” are not equally harmful statements, and they don’t cancel each other out. So please don’t give this situation the “both sides were wrong” treatment. Your brother made a hateful attack on an innocent person. Your husband stood up for your son. Did he do it nicely or respectfully? No. But clearly, he’s someone who thinks that a form of hate shouldn’t be treated more gently than other kinds of hate just because it is loosely linked to one interpretation of a particular religion. And I think he’s right.
It’s very possible that your desire to avoid a rift with your family will come across to your husband and son as though you believe your brother’s opinions are acceptable or tolerable. And that could really hurt. So talk to them about why you want to continue the relationship, what you think that will look like, how you’d like them to be involved, and how you make sense of your brother’s beliefs and attacks. Then really listen to what they say. Perhaps they don’t care and are also willing to go along to get along. But if reconciliation would hurt them—because of what it would say about your beliefs and what kind of treatment you think your son should endure for the sake of family harmony—think long and hard before you make people who care about their religion more than they care about your own child a priority.
Link
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You can lose your sister and her husband, or you can lose your husband and your son.
The choice really ought to be obvious.
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LW, large parts of your family hold your son in contempt simply because he's gay. And they're not polite at all about it. There's no way you're going to find a middle ground with them on that. If you truly love your husband and son, don't even try.
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* Since we know Husband is a dude and they weren’t being attacked for being gay themselves, LW’s a woman.
** I have no apologies for saying this. She sucks. I kicked my only sibling to the curb after said sibling decided to be shitty about one of my kids’ inborn traits, and I know how much it hurts, but LW’s done wrong by her kid by trying to cast blame around so she can continue to prioritize her sister over her own kid. Her kid deserves way better than this bullshit. LW sucks harder than a Dyson on steroids.
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To expand on the latter: when I was a child being raised in an Evangelical Christian church, I was taught with the aid of carefully cherry-picked Bible verses that 1) homosexuality was evil 2) Christians were oppressed by the entire rest of the world 3) Jesus commanded people to leave even their families to follow Him. If I'd internalized these three teachings I could easily act as these family members did.
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This pisses me off absolutely the most out of all the bullshit claims. The fundigelical crowd doesn't honestly give two shits about Christians who are actually experiencing any form of oppression.
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I could wish that LW didn't need to be told this but some people really seem to have no empathy for the children they set out to raise. I want to put this parent at the same table as the LW who got mad when her Black husband got mad at someone for touching their daughter's hair, for ease of lecturing them both.
Also I want to buy LW's husband a BOHC.
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Also, agreed with everybody that there is no middle ground here. LW should be firmly on the side of her son (and husband).
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Yeah, me too. They're contemptible.
Yes ...
But there's another aspect to consider, and it relates to the father's observation of abuse. What's to stop them from abusing the gay person in other ways? Probably nothing. He is not safe around these people. They might keep it verbal, but verbal abuse can do more lasting damage than physical abuse. They might decide to beat the gay out of him. Or they might take out suppressed homosexual tendencies of their own through sexual abuse.
It might be possible for the mother to interact with her birth relatives, alone, leaving her husband and son safely out of their reach. But even that runs a risk of poisoning the mother's mind against them. When you surround yourself with people who share an opinion that you don't, it can be hard to hold your ground -- and they'll usually attack you, not leave it as an accepted point of disagreement. I've seen this repeatedly.