agonyaunt | Wow, these people....

Wow, these people....

1. DEAR ABBY: My son is 20 and a senior in college. He's a baseball player and is about to ask the girl he's been dating for a year and a half to marry him. My wife and I don't get along with her at all. She has a myriad of health problems and takes eight prescriptions a day. Because of her conditions, she rarely has the energy to do anything but lie around when she comes to our house. She used to have a job packing groceries at a market, and she would frequently log 10 to 12 miles a day walking. She quit that job for a job at an ice cream shop where she does little walking.

We had a get-together at my other son's house, and she said she couldn't come because she was too tired. My wife sent my son a message saying, "Really? From scooping ice cream?" The girlfriend needed to use my son's phone and saw the message. Her feelings were hurt, and now she will have nothing to do with us. (They still expect us to pay for their wedding, and for gas and maintenance on his car to visit her parents almost daily.) We want to support our son, but we are over it with her. There is so much more I could tell you. Please help. -- DAD WHO'S OVER IT

DEAR DAD: If your son's fiancee is taking eight medications a day, she has real health problems. Her fatigue is likely part of it. It's a shame she can't perform up to your expectations. Under the circumstances, I can understand why she would be hurt by your wife's comment. If you want to support your son, apologize to her.

I should also point out that if your son is not self-supporting, he is not yet financially prepared for the responsibilities that marriage brings with it. His fiancee may be willing to help, but her income is limited right now and could diminish to nothing if she becomes sicker. Given the current situation, it might be better if the wedding were postponed.

Link one

**************

2. Dear Eric: My wife of 50 years told me that she no longer wants to live with me. I am currently living in our summer home with no friends or social contacts/networks. She has no interest in reconciling.

We didn't fight or argue, and I am at a loss as to what triggered her declaration. This has taken me totally by surprise. I thought we had a good marriage, with occasional ups and downs. There are no abuse, addiction or infidelity issues. I worked my whole life and am now retired. As soon as we had children, she was able to stay at home and lived comfortably raising our children and taking care of the household. The children have sided with their mom and won't speak to me. I think she has poisoned them against me, but don't see the gain in her doing that.

I am miserable. I am 74 with neurological mobility issues. I fear that I will fall, and no one will be around. Senior housing for me is too expensive and will deplete our planned retirement resources. We were counting on eventually selling our summer home to supplement our finances later in life. This is no longer possible as I am living in that house. This is not how I wanted the last chapters of my life to end.

I have had five sessions of therapy with no results. My therapist says I'm not at risk to myself or others and I am perpetually slightly depressed but not debilitated. Without more concrete information, he cannot help me. I am not a bad person, yet here I am.

– Totally Betrayed

Dear Betrayed: First off, I’m concerned about the therapist’s response. Even without major depression, a therapist can help you process the shock of your separation and plan your next steps. So, you should set an appointment with another therapist with those stated goals up front.

I’m not sure whether the lack of “concrete information” indicates a failing of the therapist’s or indicates that you’re holding back. Therapy can help us acknowledge the things that we refuse to admit to ourselves, but you can also start to do some of this work on your own, if there are parts of your story that you haven’t included. It’s concerning, for instance, that your children have stopped speaking to you. Without more information, I can’t say what that’s about, but it suggests that there’s something you need to unpack. It’s useful to ask yourself what that is.

It's equally important that you find safety and stability. Talk to a divorce lawyer and a financial planner about what has happened and what needs to happen moving forward. They can help you sort out the issues with the house and retirement. Talk to your doctor about the possibility of a home health aide or a connection to a social worker. There are options out there for you.

I’m sorry that you feel blindsided by this. But accepting that this is what is happening right now and taking proactive steps will keep you safe.

Link two

************

3. DEAR ABBY: Our 23-year-old son, "Ed," was clean-cut, into working out and staying healthy, watched his diet -- he even joined a gym and was going every week. Ed has been dating a girl, "Emily," who is the complete opposite. She's probably a hundred pounds overweight. She's also dirty, (when she comes here, there have been days she doesn't take a shower).

Twice I have found Emily's lingerie on the floor. Last week, she left a pair of her panties on the bathroom floor. I showed Ed and told him that was the SECOND time I had found her underwear (the first time I didn't say anything). I said, "You have to talk to Emily and tell her not to leave her underwear laying around."

I see a change in Ed. My son hasn't cut his hair in 2 1/2 years and he no longer appears to be as into working out. This is not who we are as a family. My husband and I are fit for our ages (60s) and by all standards clean and orderly. Should I say anything to Ed? I feel like Emily is changing who he is. -- NOT THE SAME IN THE EAST

DEAR NOT THE SAME: Please stop blaming Emily for the changes you have observed. Your son is making those changes himself. Although his girlfriend appears to be ignorant about basic hygiene, I am not sure you are the parent who should discuss this with Ed. He might be less defensive if "the talk" comes from his father, man to man.

I am unclear if your son still lives in the home with you or if he and his girlfriend have a place of their own. If it's the former, you would certainly be within your rights to point out that you have a hamper for soiled clothes and to please use it. If they live separately, consider gifting them one for their place.

Link three

**********

4. DEAR ABBY: Our 40-year-old son has become a full-fledged narcissist and blames us (his sister, her husband, my husband and me) for a family schism that has gone on for two years. He tells lies about us and keeps us from our granddaughter. Any attempt to contact him has been met with venomous, foul-mouthed texts in return.

Our son went through a nasty divorce and horrible custody proceeding, but we did our best to support him financially and emotionally during that time. He is now supposedly happily remarried, but he continues to deny us access to his daughter. We are heartbroken. This is not the way we raised him. Any suggestions? -- BAFFLED IN NORTH CAROLINA

DEAR BAFFLED: You stated that your son is "supposedly happily remarried." Could his new wife have had something to do with this schism? Unless your son had a psychotic break after his divorce and, in his delusions, thinks you, your husband, his sister and her husband are to blame for everything going wrong, SOMETHING has definitely changed. Family counseling might help to heal the breach, but only if he agrees there is a need for it.

Link four

******

5. DEAR HARRIETTE: My husband and I recently planned a weekend trip out of town, and we arranged for our children to stay with their aunt, my husband's sister, while we were away. We thought everything was going well until, halfway through our trip, we received a call from her saying that one of our kids had started acting out. She told us that she doesn't tolerate that kind of behavior in her home and insisted that we come pick him up immediately. I was shocked and honestly upset. I understand that our son can be a handful at times. He's going through a bit of a rebellious phase, but I feel like she overreacted. We trusted her to help us out, and instead of trying to manage the situation or even calling us for advice on how to calm him down, she made us cut our trip short and made us feel like we were being irresponsible parents for going away in the first place. Now there's tension between us, and I don't know how to approach this. Am I wrong for feeling like she could have handled things differently? -- Not Helpful

DEAR NOT HELPFUL: Did you inform your sister-in-law of your son's recent behavioral shifts? It sounds like you knew that he could be difficult, but you may not have communicated that clearly to her. Sure, she could have tried harder to care for your children and give you and your husband a much-needed respite. It also sounds like you could have communicated more specifically about your children's needs and idiosyncrasies.

Both of you could have done better. To mend the situation, speak to her and admit that you could have been more communicative about your son's potential challenges so that she would have been better prepared. Tell her you wish she hadn't given up so quickly as you really needed some time away. Acknowledge that you both could have handled the situation differently. Ask for forgiveness and move on.

Link five

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

1. You know this young woman has one or more disabilities. Why are you being so vicious? (And frankly, if she chose to lie and say she was "tired" rather than "oh, god, I hate your fucking parents, they're the worst, I'll stay home" then she showed more manners than these people.)

2. LW2, buddy, when your therapist asked you for "more concrete information", he was telling you to stop lying to yourself. You absolutely know why your wife left, because she told you when she did so. And you know why your kids won't talk to you, because I guarantee they told you too. And you really know that you can't blame your wife for your estrangement from your kids. They're not children, they're grown-ups. They make their own decisions. Nothing is going to improve for you emotionally until and unless you acknowledge reality.

3. "This is not who we are as a family. My husband and I are fit for our ages (60s) and by all standards clean and orderly."

Yeah, but you're also judgmental as fuck. It's not a crime to not take a shower each and every day, nor to be overweight, nor to have long hair. Emily shouldn't leave her underwear on the bathroom floor, though. Even if it's the guest bathroom, that's not okay.

4. "He continues to deny us access to his daughter."

Yeah, and I guess her mom doesn't want you to visit her either! Can't imagine why that would be!

5. Your "rebellious" "handful" of a son needed to "calm down"? What the hell was he doing? LW5, you're in the wrong here and you know it. If your son's behavior is so bad that he can't even stay with relatives for a few days then you need parenting classes or therapy or something, but blaming them is not the answer.

There's always the possibility for #5 that the acting out was eg rudely refusing to wash/dry the dishes or have a bath, but no worse than that.

LW could be over-reacting to behaviour that is age-normal.

Yeah, I think #5 is a missing reasons one. Going away for a weekend is a maximum 2-day stint of looking after the kid... on the one hand, you'd think it would have to be really bad "acting out" to call the parents rather than just stick it out, in which case LW is out of line and should back the other grown-ups who were doing her a favour anyway. Or... kid's "rebellious phase" is swearing a bit, or Being Gay, or Not Eating His Greens Even When He's A Guest, in which case the LW is right to expect Aunt to be able to cope.

It also doesn't say what the rest of the family set-up is. Does Aunt have other kids at home to be impacted by the 'acting out', or pets? Does she see / look after LW's kids much? Did she find having LW's kids (how many?) plus her own more of a handful than she'd anticipated?

As always, I suspect that if the evidence of what 5's son was doing would exonerate both of them, they would've actually spelled it out.

There is so much missing from these letters! Sometimes it's an ounce of compassion (looking at you, LW1) and several times it's information. LW 2's grown children did not side with their mom for no reason, and they know it. LW 4's son isn't keeping his daughter from his family for no reason, and they know it. Especially LW 2. Kinda seems like he expected the therapist to give him magic words to make his life go back to normal.

Therapy is not a magic wand! Your therapist doesn't cure you, you have to do the work. But these are words that will float right by LW2, because he doesn't want to admit there's work that needs to be done, and probably needed to be done five decades ago.

Soooo much missing information. Starting to think it's a supply chain problem, with empty information shelves everywhere. On number 5, for instance, it kind of matters whether the kid is, say, a two-year-old who climbed on the dining-room table, or, say, a ten-year-old who purposely hurt an animal.

1. There is a legitimate concern about the son and girlfriend's readiness for marriage in this letter. The couple is young, and the son isn't yet handling his own life expenses; if my son were planning marriage at 20 and hadn't held a full-time job yet, I'd be concerned too, especially in an economy where large numbers of college grads aren't finding jobs right away.

But the legitimate concern is buried under a steaming pile of ableism. Note that they mention he's a baseball player -- what does that have to do with the problem? Nothing, except to point out that he's an athlete and contrast that with the girlfriend's fatigue.

(Also, "he's about to ask her to marry him" and "they still expect us to pay for their wedding" -- these don't quite sync, unless the couple has an informal understanding that they've communicated to LW but haven't done the formal Ask And Ring.)

Oh, yeah, 20 is too young to marry, especially if you're not really capable of living independently - which, in this case, means living independently on a salary that supports two people, because GF is clearly in need of some extra assistance here.

Whooo, boy, LW2. You know why she kicked you out. Given the small amount of actual facts presented, I’m smelling one of those retired guys who went from leaving her in her sanctum 9 hours a day to suddenly being underfoot and constantly pestering her for attention as his sole social outlet.

LW3, the 1970s are calling to tell you that the “dirty hippies” fight has been over for 50 years.

LW2 doesn't have any friends or social networks? That's not telling at all, is it?

He doesn't even tell us that his wife "poisoned" his existing relationships! They're just not there at all!

To be fair to him, I read it as him being at the summer home and therefore far away from his friends and social networks (at the formerly-marital home). But it could also be that he relied on his wife to do all the social-network maintenance and so now all the social connections are effectively ‘hers’, yeah.

1. Holy fuck I can't even.

2. "This has taken me totally by surprise. I thought we had a good marriage" $20 says it was okay for him, while she was in a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness until she broke.

3. "Although his girlfriend appears to be ignorant about basic hygiene" based on what, not showering every day and being overweight and having dirty clothes? I agree leaving panties in a shared bathroom isn't great, but omg the judgment!

4. What was the schism about? What lies?

5. I agree with

ethelmay: age is hella relevant, as is the nature of "acting out". A 3yo yelling no at bedtime ... is very different than a 15yo becoming physical or dangerous.

Also, assuming the aunt has done caregiving for the kids before, I'd assume this significant enough to be ... well, significant. It feels wrong for LW to be all "we TRUST her to HELP" ... she trusted you to raise your kids.

based on what, not showering every day and being overweight and having dirty clothes?

Seriously. Also, tangent, it's doubtful that this young woman really is 100 pounds overweight. I mean, she might be, it's at least in the realm of the possible - but people who are determined to judge you harshly are the least reliable people to determine exactly how fat you are.

2. So let's see here...

* LW defines a good marriage in a way that sounds more like minimum baseline for an adequate marriage ("no abuse, addiction, or infidelity issues").
* LW describes his unhappiness in a way that makes his wife sound like a medical alert button rather than a person.
* LW has no friends or social contacts. (Gee, I wonder who was handling that part of their life.)
* They never fought or argued. In other words, she never disagreed with him loudly enough for him to hear it.
* The kids have all sided with Mom. (Wife of 50 years = kids are adults and capable of making their own judgment about Dad.)
* LW describes himself as "Totally Betrayed".

I can't imagine why, once he was retired and around the house all the time, his wife finally decided "f this, I could live with him when he was out of the house 40+ hours a week, but now that he's retired I'm not spending the rest of my life like this". (As someone whose ideal place to live in retirement would be one side of a duplex with Spouse on the other side, I sympathize.)

Seriously, I've heard people describe their relationships with their roommates in better terms than he describes his marriage.

Both #1 and #3 would be appalled by me. I get overtired from teaching a 50-minute class, I seldom shower more than every other day (if they knew how I'd been handling hygiene while recovering from foot surgery that leaves me unable to put any weight on one foot, they'd probably don hazmat suits), and I've even been known to leave panties on (my own) bathroom floor, although not when I knew company was coming. BTW, I've worked at an ice cream shop, and it is physical labor.

BTW, I've worked at an ice cream shop, and it is physical labor.

Seriously.

yes, working at an ice cream shop = being on your feet for 8 hours or 10 hours a day.

Most retail business don't provide stool or chairs, and expect employees to stand all shift, which is hard on a healthy human body, much less a body with chronic illness.

#3 do not give them a hamper. Do not. If they ask for one as a gift okay. But otherwise hampers are (or at least can be) cheap and generally people know about them; if they want one they can get one.

Oh, no, definitely give them a hamper so they can see just how judgmental and awful you really are.

Wow.

That's what I said!

1. As someone who is weak and disabled, I get tired from just going to uni for a few half-days a week.

It's not even the exercise that gets me, it's everything — being overwhelmed, let alone being in that state for a prolonged period of time, is genuinely fucking exhausting. Your brain is as much a part of your body as everything else is, and it effects everything else to the greatest extent. There is a reason that mentally ill/disabled folks are often physically vulnerable, and it's not just about motivation to take care of yourself.

Though, yeah, marriage at 20 is not a good idea, with or without financial issues.

2. Interesting how LW2 never elaborates on how he treated their children, yet implies that it's no way it's his fault they don't want to talk to him...

3. Someone can be overweight and still be into fitness.

Pointing out how fat the girlfriend is doesn't explain anything at all about her mindset. Fat people are allowed to try and lose weight, LW3.

Not showering everyday doesn't automatically mean dirty.

If you don't leave the house (or don't do much outside), and it's a temperature that won't make you sweat, you don't become dirty that quickly (assuming you wash your hands and properly clean up any bodily excrement, of course).

No clarification on the timeline of when Ed starting changing vs when he starting dating Emily — that's also important if we're blaming her, yknow.

"This is not who we are a family"... Your son is an individual, and also a couple years into his adult life.

If he wants to be different to y'all, that's absolutely his perrogative. Family is not the be-all end-all.

4. Immediately calling someone a narcissist always puts me on edge. It's often used wrongly, and slapped onto anyone who the speaker wants to demonise for any reason at all under the sun.

Nobody has the divinely-ordained right to interact with specific other people.

You can even lose the right/privilege to be with your own children, partner/s, or parents if the circumstances allow. Of course, there is never any information on what the literal granddaughter herself thinks. Does she even want to talk to them?

5. Just. Sigh. Simply not enough information on what the son did.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Wow, these people....

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject