agonyaunt | (no subject)

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My 4-year-old transitioned to a big-kid bed more than six months ago. Since the switch, every time he wakes up (at night, super early in the morning, etc.), he comes into our room needing us (and waking us up). Sometimes he is crying because he is scared, but often it just feels like an automatic thing he’s doing. We always march him back to his room and don’t let him get in bed with us. We have tried what feels like everything: a reward chart for a bigger reward he gets to pick, a small reward each day he stays in his room, a light that changes color when he can come out of his room, talks at times other than when we’re dealing with it in the moment about staying in his room, some books about being afraid of the dark, a special box of toys to play with when he wakes up, a fun galaxy light, a Yoto he can listen to … nothing has worked.

I don’t want to lock him in for a variety of reasons. I feel like we’re almost back in the baby stages of being woken up at night! I was hoping it was just a phase we’d get through, but it’s really dragging on at this point. He’s also been tired during the day so he’s not getting enough sleep. Any ideas?

—Mom in the Land of 10,000 Yawns

It sounds, at the least, like your son now has a very cool room. I’m not even sure what a galaxy light is, but it sounds awesome!

One thing my wife and I always remind ourselves when this problem pops up—and given that we have three kids who are 4, 6, and 8-years-olds whose rooms are within a 10-foot walk of ours, it pops up a lot—is that it’s nice that our kids want to be around us now. You know, anticipating the stages when they will definitely not want to be at home and running into mom and dad for a chat at 2 a.m. Also, given all those things you’ve tried, you should probably feel good about being prepared, thoughtful parents. I’m impressed!

As for what else to do, I did just admit that this still happens in my household, so who am I to talk, really, but: An approach that has worked for me quite often is to just casually tell the kids before they go to sleep that I (and/or my wife) need some extra rest at the moment and that as such we’re all going to stay in our own beds for the night. I clarify that they can of course come in if they have a problem, but that the night’s not going to end in room-hopping on anyone’s end. For some reason, maybe because it lowers the stakes to just one night and leaves the possibility of some interaction open, this is usually effective! And once you get them to realize that they can make it one night, the habit starts to form, which also makes dealing with any backsliding easier too. Give it a try!

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Several Slate commenters suggested the same thing I was thinking, which is that LW should put a cushion/crib mattress/dog bed on the floor of their room and tell their kid he can sleep there if he wants, but he shouldn't wake them unless it's really important.

Honestly, sometimes you don't need to fight a battle.

(Although, tbh, I'd probably just let the kid into my bed with me. I get why a lot of people don't like this solution, but... well, I'm not those people, am I?)

They've tried everything except what the kid seems to need most - access to co-regulating with the parents. Snuggles, sleeping in same room, whatever.

I was going to say, I think a lot more families co-sleep than the average person realizes. We never set out to do it, but snuggling the then-small-fanperson to sleep was effective, and later, they would just come and climb between us, or later, stretch out at the bottom of the bed. They eventually outgrew it. And frankly, years later, when they're a bit prickly about physical affection, I'm glad we enjoyed it while we had it. If it's really, really not feasible for LW's family, then there are all kinds of strategies, but I really do wonder if they're taking such a hard line just because they think it's something they should do.

I agree that if they haven't tried it, they probably should hit fwiw absolutely hated cosleeping which I tried a few times with my kids.

They both have an ability to take up the entire king-size bed which defies all laws of physics and they sleep like starfish, rotate and can somehow kick me no matter where I am in the bed. I actually would rather get up to resettle them than share a bed with them, I find that gets me more sleep in the end.

I also didn't find that it actually particularly helped my children to sleep - they woke up the same number of times, but my quality of sleep between their wake-ups was much worse.

I think mattress on the floor is a better solution (though again when we have tried this, it didn't actually help with the number of wake ups) - but I also have some sympathy with just needing some private space sometimes. Children that age are so demanding that I remember just needing nighttime to be a time when I wasn't with them.

Well, yeah, that would fall under "really not feasible." It's not a panacea, but I think that, at least in the U.S., we put a lot of emphasis on kids sleeping alone as a developmental milestone, and sometimes that leads to overlooking obvious solutions like co-sleeping, or a mattress on the floor.

They both have an ability to take up the entire king-size bed which defies all laws of physics and they sleep like starfish, rotate and can somehow kick me no matter where I am in the bed.

Isn't it amazing how they do that? By day the child is 125 cm tall, by night they EXPAND.

It's not just children. Finn, our (now-deceased) toy poodle used to somehow take up the entire bed every time he lay down, and he was an immovable brick! None of the other pets quite manage that, but he just insisted on being in the middle if none of us was on the bed and then RIGHT NEXT TO US if we were.

You at least gave it a shot, which is about all we can ask. If it's just not workable for you then at least you *know*. I'm not sure LW has run through their available options here - but it's a short enough letter, they might've left it out.

This. At that age, soothing via parent is very developmentally necessary. Once the foundations are laid, the child is much more likely to end up in a place where they can and want to soothe themselves. It doesn't mean you're going to end up with a 14-yo who still can't sleep alone.

For the same reason that if you take good care of them for their entire childhood, they're more likely to be a successful and independent 24-yo, than if you neglect their developmentally appropriate needs in the name of teaching independence (prematurely).

Yeah. My sister slept in the same bed as our mother for what felt like a millennia (mother would stay in my sister’s bed ‘til she fell asleep, then got up and left, which was fine as she had no fear of being abandoned). I don’t remember if it ever explicitly stopped me from waking up my parents, but something that comforted me was that they had a mic in our room to relay sound to their room in case of an emergency where we wouldn’t be able to get up and ask for help in person. Even children who do not need to directly co-regulate still need more assurance than what it sounds like LW is doing, because all the pretty incentives don’t matter if the kid is scared out of their mind.

Were they co-sleeping before? This is not specified.

1. If the parents are not closing the child's door and their own door, that is certainly a option. Just to interrupt the kid's flow and emphasize that we do not just march into other people's bedrooms.

Does the child spend time alone? Has the child been taught to amuse himself alone, or is someone always there?

2. Put the youth bed with the railings back up? "I guess you aren't ready for the big kid bed, if you can't get to sleep in it. A few months in this one, and we'll try it again."

3. It sounds like the concept of "private" has not been a thing in the family? Respecting other people's space? Work on that.

4. Do not let him catch up on sleep during the day.

5. They haven't tried not getting up for a perp walk, and instead telling him to go back to bed by himself? Unless he's puking, pooping, or feverish, of course.

6. Is anything else going on? I assume he's toilet trained; is he being awakened by needing to pee or anything? What are they feeding him and when---timing of meals before bed can affect blood sugar later and make a person wakeful. Have they talked to his pediatrician? Sounds like no!

My pediatrician told me in no uncertain terms that I was just encouraging my child to demand more attention when I fell asleep on child's floor.

Was the child still nursing, or in the process of weaning and/or toilet training, at the time of transitioning to his own bed? That's a huge change if the child was also co-sleeping, to go to not only a new bed but a different room.

Also, LW doesn't mention whether there have been other changes in the family dynamic in the past 6 months (eg new sibling, starting pre-school) that might be causing some stress for the child. Definitely a talk with the child's doctor is in order to make sure there's nothing physical.

My goodness, the kid’s only 4 and you kicked them out at 3 1/2. Put a mattress down on the floor for them. They’re not going to be trying to sleep in your room when they’re 10, so stop having a big freakout about it while they’re still tiny.

He might still try to sleep in their room at ten, but at that point he will, at least in theory, be more reasonable and willing to listen to a firm "no".

(Hm. Actually, 10 - 12 may be the worst time to end cosleeping if the kid isn't initiating. Maybe somewhere between 6 - 9 is better? Preteens are the worst, they're like toddlers all over again but you can't pick them up and carry them places.)

Ha. My 12-year-old came in with me a couple of weeks ago, but that was because she was worried about something and it was keeping her awake. It doesn't happen more than a couple of times a year now, generally when my husband is away which seems to be another thing that bothers her. (Co-slept all the time from 8 months to about 2 years, then on and off until she mostly grew out of it.)

My kids are late teens and maybe 1-2 times a year they find me for late-night talks. (I’m up late so it’s more wandering into the basement or workshop or wherever I happen to be.) I always feel sorry for them that they are distressed enough to need comfort, but also grateful that they still see me as a source of comfort and know I’m safe to come to. (Not every teen has that relationship with their parent(s).)

I’ve never known a kid that wouldn’t be mortified to still be sleeping with their parents by the time they hit middle school. If a kid does still want to, there’s likely to be something there that needs addressing (like an anxiety disorder).

Well, we know different kids.

Who brought up locks at all? That's HORRIBLE.

Also, a fire hazard.

Yeah, that too.

I wouldn't blame the parents for putting a lock on the inside of the PARENT'S bedroom door to make sure they don't get walked in on during sex, tho.

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