Another one for the MYOB squad....

[conuly]

DEAR ABBY: I am concerned about my daughter. She's in a nice relationship, which seems good. They have two beautiful sons, ages 4 and 2, good jobs, a nice home and nice families who show a lot of support. We are always there for one another.

My concern is that my daughter's partner will not move forward with an engagement and proposal of marriage. A few years ago, I mentioned marriage to him, and he answered, "Soon." His parents also said the time will be coming soon. I heard from someone that he said there has been a lot of divorce in his family, and that's what is holding him back.

I feel for my daughter. While her sister and cousins are getting married, she is sitting idle. I don't really know how she is feeling because I try not to butt in, but this is hurting my wife and me, and possibly her. Should I say something again or stay out of it? She would be a beautiful and happy bride. -- EMPATHETIC DAD IN ILLINOIS

DEAR DAD: Sorry to be a grump, but it's time to think realistically. There is a lot more to this than what a beautiful and happy bride your daughter would make. Has she considered what would happen to her and the children if something unforeseen happened to her partner? Who would be legally empowered to make medical and financial decisions for him? Her? His parents? Has he considered what the outcome of his stalling could be, two children later?

Talk with your daughter and make sure she understands the implications of what's going on. Yes, she and her partner are happy. Bless them for that. But it's possible neither of them is thinking pragmatically and, for the sake of her and the children, that should change.

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Comments

[conuly]

"I try not to butt in! That's why I've spoken to literally everybody but my daughter about this!"

Well, at least he admits he doesn't know what she feels about it.

[castiron]

LW, the fact that you say "possibly hurting her" means you don't know. There's an easy way to find out. You can ask her. For all you know, partner's amenable and she's the one who doesn't want to get legally married.

But also, if she says "yeah, I'm not happy with his dragging his feet on marriage either", what are you realistically going to do? Pull a shotgun on partner and force him into the car that your wife drives to the church or JP's office? Pressure your daughter to leave him, disrupting your grandkids' lives? Get together with partner's parents and stage an intervention?

[castiron]

That said, the columnist does raise a valid question about whether daughter and partner have squared away the legal paperwork to handle the things marriage would otherwise cover, especially since there's kids in the mix. But that's something you can address by asking daughter "Hey, have you and your partner made legal and financial arrangements for what happens in case either of you becomes seriously ill or dies?" (and if the answer is no, maybe offer to help pay for it)

[juniperphoenix]

She has a four-year-old and a two-year-old. I promise she is not "sitting idle."

[jadelennox]

yeah that was my reaction as well.

[adrian_turtle]

This young woman is not "sitting idle" while her sister and cousins get married. She has found a happy relationship and good job. She is raising young children in a supportive community. More power to her! She and her partner don't need a wedding so much as they need wills and detailed guardianship papers for their children.

[sporky_rat]

They need guardianship papers, and specifying who has rights of disposition, not a wedding.

Who knows they might have already done that and not told dear old dad.

[mrissa]

"Some people's daughters would make ugly brides, in which case they get to determine their own relationship status without my input. Mine happens to be physically attractive, though, so she has to do things the way I want."

[cimorene]

+1

[full_metal_ox]

"Some people's daughters would make ugly brides, in which case they get to determine their own relationship status without my input. Mine happens to be physically attractive, though, so she has to do things the way I want."

“She’s hot property—-and too valuable to be left to her own devices. Also, I’ve long since planned exactly how I’m going to dress her up.” (ETA: LW, as a man, is less likely to be nurturing Barbie scenarios.)

[minoanmiss]

You never know. My father definitely envisioned me getting married in a big lacy gown before a packed church Ask me how I know.

[full_metal_ox]

Based on your past accounts of his behavior? I’m pretty sure he and your mother told you. Relentlessly.

[minoanmiss]

You are correct!

[ysobel]

I hate the last paragraph of the advice.

Yes there are legal and practical complications to not being married, but since LW hasn't actually talked with his daughter he can't know if she knows, so "make sure she understands" feels ... idk, potentially condescending?

LW should check in with the daughter about how she feels, IF he can do so without pushing his views on her; but there's a difference between "I've noticed ABC, how do you feel? have you two talked about X and Y and Z possibilities?" and "How upset are you about ABC? Also you clearly haven't considered everything, if X or Y or Z happens you're fucked"

...and don't fucking bring up "sitting idle" or "beautiful bride"

[melannen]

There are also plenty of situations in which *not* getting married makes a lot more legal and financial sense for both of them - LW if you have reason to think your daughter's in a situation where marriage would be clearly legally important (i.e., a sahm in a house she doesn't have any legal stake in) then ask her if she can use advice on that part of it. But otherwise trust that your adult kid with her own kids knows what she's doing.

[tielan]

The only leg he might possibly have to stand on is the situation with the legal and financial standing between his daughter and her partner. I could understand him being concerned for her in those dimensions considering there are grandkids involved.

That said, if that's what he's alluding to in his letter with all that stuff about weddings and brides...uh, that's very ham-fistedly done, LW.

[firecat]

These days a person of any sex can propose marriage to their partner(s). Why are we all waiting for the daughter’s partner to “move forward with an engagement and proposal of marriage”? I’m worried they don’t want to marry and are afraid Empathetic Dad will hit the roof if they tell him.

[sushiflop]

I agree with the pragmatic side of the advice and also I have heard anecdotes about enough partners who drag their feet on committing to marriage at least in part so that they can duck out more easily when something better comes along that I COULD see it being worth asking daughter how she feels about the whole thing, ONCE. And then a loving parent could reiterate their support and their wish for their child to have the best in life, including marriage if that is what daughter wants.

This dad specifically seems to be kind of self absorbed though, so I think maybe he should just carry on minding his own business.

[jack]

"Moving forward" has sailed. They have a house and children already, that's as committed as you can be.

The question for her is, is the husband committed to the children? If not, do what you can but you can't make him get married. If so, have they practically checked that the children will be taken care of if one of them leaves or dies? If not, they should try. Marriage may be the best way but it may not be.

The question for the father is: She's an adult with a happy, successful life. Ask her if this is ok. If not, ask if you can help. Do not assume that marriage is easily available and needed and they're avoiding it for no reason.