![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
Grandparents and childcare, four letters
1. Dear Carolyn: My mother-in-law made a comment to one of my husband’s cousins during a recent gathering that I unfortunately overheard. My mother-in-law stated that she doesn’t get to see my young children much due to the “overpowering other grandmother.”
This infuriated me. My husband and I both work full time, and my job includes nights. My mother comes to help with the kids about once per week; she has offered. My mother-in-law has never offered to help and in fact comes to our area frequently, about weekly, but does not ask or offer to come visit. We try to see her at least once a month, but this usually involves our traveling to her. On the rare occasion she does ask to come to our house, we have welcomed her.
This is not the only time she has made awkward or hurtful comments about people I care deeply about, including my husband. I want to tell her she spoke falsely about my mother and the situation at hand, but my husband suggests it wouldn’t help and to let it go. I now find it hard(er) to be around her. Is it unreasonable to bring up my concerns?
It might be unreasonable even to have your concerns, if I’m reading the whole problem correctly. You seem to be saying that your mom gets to help with the kids weekly because she offered, and your mother-in-law doesn’t get to help with the kids weekly because she never offered.
If that’s accurate, then a minor cultural difference could explain the whole problem: Your mother-in-law might view offering as pushy. She may have been waiting all this time to be asked — and all this time, as a corollary, thinking you asked your mom but you didn’t ask her.
That’s just a theory, one of a possible many. But if you want more of your mother-in-law’s help, or truly want her to feel as welcome in your home and family as your mom feels — or, other extreme, if you’d take some satisfaction in calling her bluff — then, by all means, invite your mother-in-law to start coming by once a week, too. Spell it out, even: “I overheard you the other day. My mom comes once a week because she offered and we accepted. It never occurred to us you might feel left out. If you want to help, too, wonderful. We worried you would feel cornered if we asked.”
Another theory (bolstered by her “hurtful comments” tendency) is that your mother-in-law knows full well she could help weekly and chooses not to — but feels guilty and wants to appear the martyr. So she fashioned herself as the odd grandmother out as a convenient cover story. Face saved. So many sons- and daughters-in-law do favor their own mothers, I bet this narrative is a hit with her friend group.
Or, Theory No. 3, you favor your mom more than you realize — so your mother-in-law hasn’t felt as welcome or seen her son or bonded with her grandkids as she hoped.
This wouldn’t excuse her trashing anyone to a cousin, of course. But forgiving her and at least trialing a kind of radical fairness would jibe with each theory and fit into the general wisdom of treating your in-laws as you want someday to be treated.
Before you harrumph this idea out of consideration, allow me to note that your kids, right now, including a son, are watching and learning from you.
Link one
****
2. Dear Care and Feeding,
The cost of child care in our city is more than most people’s rent. We couldn’t afford for either my wife or me to stay home when we had our son and were very thankful when my widowed mother volunteered. She loved being with her grandson, which is why, when he started preschool, it shocked us that my mother announced she would be moving to England to pursue an old romantic flame. They had been talking on Facebook and video chatting for months and she never once mentioned it to us. At first, we thought it was a scam, but my mother showed us she had talked with her lawyer and financial advisor. This former (and future) boyfriend is real enough.
My wife got very upset because we had been trying for another baby for a while. She asked my mother why she was abandoning us when we were counting on her. My mother got cross and told my wife that she was allowed to live her own life and not be used as an “unpaid nanny” by us for the rest of her life. It got worse from there. I have tried talking to my mother but it is like talking to a wall. She thinks she “deserves an adventure” and even if the romance doesn’t work out she will regret not even trying. I don’t understand. After my dad died, she moved to be near us and now she wants to be thousands of miles away. I don’t know how to get through to her. Help!
—Moving Away
Dear Moving,
Something is missing here. Did you have a specific, said-out-loud agreement with your mom that she’d serve as grand-nanny for the new baby, if and when your hopes of conception come to fruition? Your mom spent, I’m guessing, three or four years at home with the first baby, giving him good home care all the way through preschool. That’s a gift from her that’s worth literally thousands of dollars, and uncountably more when it comes to peace of mind. If you both just plain assumed that she’d stick around and do the same for any future babies you have—an open-ended commitment of her time—I think she’s correct to feel a bit like she’s being taken for granted.
Older people, like your mom, are people, too. Just because, after your dad died, she moved near you and intertwined her life with yours, that doesn’t mean that she was never, ever going to make another change—that her life was over. She was mourning your dad; she wanted to be close. It was a huge side benefit to you that the shape her mourning took happened to be “providing dependable, free child care for my son and his family.” That’s incredibly lucky, but one constant in life is change, and she’s still living.
I see why your wife is upset about the loss of her nanny. I wonder if you might also be upset, a little bit, about your mom starting up a new romance, after the loss of your dad. Just a thought! Either way, I think you have to be graceful here, let her do what she wants (because really, how would you stop her?), and prepare to pay for a nanny or day care for your new one. Who knows? England may not work out. You should keep your relationship with her, so that she feels like she can move back near you and count on your support, if that’s the way the biscuit crumbles.
Link two
****
3. Dear Carolyn: When our son and daughter-in-law had a baby, turns out they couldn’t afford a nanny and weren’t willing to adjust their employment to take care of the baby themselves, so after a short stint of my nannying, my husband and I agreed to pay for their nanny.
Time has passed, the monthly allowance has stayed the same, and meanwhile they’ve had another baby (yay!), bought a new house and car (well, okay), traveled, and in general are spending on things that are not necessary. We had just assumed that as their financial situation improved, they’d cut back on the help they’re accepting, but that’s not happening.
Issues:
1. I don’t want our help to give us license to judge each of their expenses, but I kind of can’t help it.
2. One reason we’re in a position to help is that we were extremely frugal when we were their age, and it bothers me that they’re not. But I don’t want to fall into the “we suffered, so they should, too” mindset.
3. On a cash-flow basis, we can afford it, but having seen the cost of elder care (via our parents), I think we should be boosting our savings.
4. Our daughter-in-law is very nice to me lately, and I can’t help but feel she’s sucking up to not endanger the gravy train, and wonder how well we’d get along if the couple were self-sufficient. I feel that money is poisoning the relationships.
This will resolve itself when the children are in school, but I don’t want to spend the next four years becoming increasingly resentful. Any suggestions for what my husband and I say to our son that would be fair to everyone?
— Too-Generous Grandma
Too-Generous Grandma: You’ve been very generous with funding for the nanny, but also ungenerous in your assumptions about the couple. Well, her; why judge your daughter-in-law more harshly than your son when they’re both in the house, car, jobs and locales you helped underwrite?
And it seems you’ve been ungenerous in sharing your thought process, too, since you’re well into getting resentful for their failure to read your minds.
Basically, it’s time for a complete swap. Any blanks you’ve filled in with judging, go instead with transparency and communication.
Each of these is judgy or judgy-adjacent: “weren’t willing to adjust their employment”; “spending on things that are not necessary”; “we had just assumed … they’d cut back”; “she’s sucking up to not endanger the gravy train.” (Yikes.)
So, first, wipe out the judginess entirely by using the version of events with the least embellishment: They are treating your gift of the nanny as something you want and can afford to give — because you haven’t told them otherwise. That’s it. All the other stuff is potentially toxic clutter.
Now replace it with communication by setting a tone of honest disclosure. “We are starting to worry about our savings for retirement and long-term care.”
And: “We never intended to fund the nanny indefinitely — but we never said that out loud to you, so of course how were you to supposed to read our minds? That’s our mistake.”
And: “We will not pull our support abruptly, but we would like to talk about tapering off.”
Then listen, and respond — claws in, minds open. The chances that you all hug it out in the end go way up if you can all look at it this way: It’s family wealth. So it’s not disappearing — you’re merely redeploying it to cushion them later in life.
Link three
****
4. DEAR SOMEONE ELSE’S MOM: With both sets of grandparents retired and living close by, what on earth could have made our daughter and son-in-law hire an au pair?
Up until they told us that was their decision, we had a perfectly working system covering the days both parents were out of the house.
We are all hurt and baffled. --- HURT BY THE CHANGE
DEAR HURT BY THE CHANGE: To avoid having this development turn into a wrench in your relationship with your daughter and son-in-law, I think it’s worth asking them the question you’ve sent my way.
Their decision may not be any kind of reflection on you and your fellow grandparents. The younger couple has their reasons for what they’ve decided to do, among which could be an assumption this is a good thing for the grandparents, a way to free up your days and enable you to enjoy your retirements more fully. But you won’t know if you don’t politely and calmly ask.
Link four
This infuriated me. My husband and I both work full time, and my job includes nights. My mother comes to help with the kids about once per week; she has offered. My mother-in-law has never offered to help and in fact comes to our area frequently, about weekly, but does not ask or offer to come visit. We try to see her at least once a month, but this usually involves our traveling to her. On the rare occasion she does ask to come to our house, we have welcomed her.
This is not the only time she has made awkward or hurtful comments about people I care deeply about, including my husband. I want to tell her she spoke falsely about my mother and the situation at hand, but my husband suggests it wouldn’t help and to let it go. I now find it hard(er) to be around her. Is it unreasonable to bring up my concerns?
It might be unreasonable even to have your concerns, if I’m reading the whole problem correctly. You seem to be saying that your mom gets to help with the kids weekly because she offered, and your mother-in-law doesn’t get to help with the kids weekly because she never offered.
If that’s accurate, then a minor cultural difference could explain the whole problem: Your mother-in-law might view offering as pushy. She may have been waiting all this time to be asked — and all this time, as a corollary, thinking you asked your mom but you didn’t ask her.
That’s just a theory, one of a possible many. But if you want more of your mother-in-law’s help, or truly want her to feel as welcome in your home and family as your mom feels — or, other extreme, if you’d take some satisfaction in calling her bluff — then, by all means, invite your mother-in-law to start coming by once a week, too. Spell it out, even: “I overheard you the other day. My mom comes once a week because she offered and we accepted. It never occurred to us you might feel left out. If you want to help, too, wonderful. We worried you would feel cornered if we asked.”
Another theory (bolstered by her “hurtful comments” tendency) is that your mother-in-law knows full well she could help weekly and chooses not to — but feels guilty and wants to appear the martyr. So she fashioned herself as the odd grandmother out as a convenient cover story. Face saved. So many sons- and daughters-in-law do favor their own mothers, I bet this narrative is a hit with her friend group.
Or, Theory No. 3, you favor your mom more than you realize — so your mother-in-law hasn’t felt as welcome or seen her son or bonded with her grandkids as she hoped.
This wouldn’t excuse her trashing anyone to a cousin, of course. But forgiving her and at least trialing a kind of radical fairness would jibe with each theory and fit into the general wisdom of treating your in-laws as you want someday to be treated.
Before you harrumph this idea out of consideration, allow me to note that your kids, right now, including a son, are watching and learning from you.
Link one
2. Dear Care and Feeding,
The cost of child care in our city is more than most people’s rent. We couldn’t afford for either my wife or me to stay home when we had our son and were very thankful when my widowed mother volunteered. She loved being with her grandson, which is why, when he started preschool, it shocked us that my mother announced she would be moving to England to pursue an old romantic flame. They had been talking on Facebook and video chatting for months and she never once mentioned it to us. At first, we thought it was a scam, but my mother showed us she had talked with her lawyer and financial advisor. This former (and future) boyfriend is real enough.
My wife got very upset because we had been trying for another baby for a while. She asked my mother why she was abandoning us when we were counting on her. My mother got cross and told my wife that she was allowed to live her own life and not be used as an “unpaid nanny” by us for the rest of her life. It got worse from there. I have tried talking to my mother but it is like talking to a wall. She thinks she “deserves an adventure” and even if the romance doesn’t work out she will regret not even trying. I don’t understand. After my dad died, she moved to be near us and now she wants to be thousands of miles away. I don’t know how to get through to her. Help!
—Moving Away
Dear Moving,
Something is missing here. Did you have a specific, said-out-loud agreement with your mom that she’d serve as grand-nanny for the new baby, if and when your hopes of conception come to fruition? Your mom spent, I’m guessing, three or four years at home with the first baby, giving him good home care all the way through preschool. That’s a gift from her that’s worth literally thousands of dollars, and uncountably more when it comes to peace of mind. If you both just plain assumed that she’d stick around and do the same for any future babies you have—an open-ended commitment of her time—I think she’s correct to feel a bit like she’s being taken for granted.
Older people, like your mom, are people, too. Just because, after your dad died, she moved near you and intertwined her life with yours, that doesn’t mean that she was never, ever going to make another change—that her life was over. She was mourning your dad; she wanted to be close. It was a huge side benefit to you that the shape her mourning took happened to be “providing dependable, free child care for my son and his family.” That’s incredibly lucky, but one constant in life is change, and she’s still living.
I see why your wife is upset about the loss of her nanny. I wonder if you might also be upset, a little bit, about your mom starting up a new romance, after the loss of your dad. Just a thought! Either way, I think you have to be graceful here, let her do what she wants (because really, how would you stop her?), and prepare to pay for a nanny or day care for your new one. Who knows? England may not work out. You should keep your relationship with her, so that she feels like she can move back near you and count on your support, if that’s the way the biscuit crumbles.
Link two
3. Dear Carolyn: When our son and daughter-in-law had a baby, turns out they couldn’t afford a nanny and weren’t willing to adjust their employment to take care of the baby themselves, so after a short stint of my nannying, my husband and I agreed to pay for their nanny.
Time has passed, the monthly allowance has stayed the same, and meanwhile they’ve had another baby (yay!), bought a new house and car (well, okay), traveled, and in general are spending on things that are not necessary. We had just assumed that as their financial situation improved, they’d cut back on the help they’re accepting, but that’s not happening.
Issues:
1. I don’t want our help to give us license to judge each of their expenses, but I kind of can’t help it.
2. One reason we’re in a position to help is that we were extremely frugal when we were their age, and it bothers me that they’re not. But I don’t want to fall into the “we suffered, so they should, too” mindset.
3. On a cash-flow basis, we can afford it, but having seen the cost of elder care (via our parents), I think we should be boosting our savings.
4. Our daughter-in-law is very nice to me lately, and I can’t help but feel she’s sucking up to not endanger the gravy train, and wonder how well we’d get along if the couple were self-sufficient. I feel that money is poisoning the relationships.
This will resolve itself when the children are in school, but I don’t want to spend the next four years becoming increasingly resentful. Any suggestions for what my husband and I say to our son that would be fair to everyone?
— Too-Generous Grandma
Too-Generous Grandma: You’ve been very generous with funding for the nanny, but also ungenerous in your assumptions about the couple. Well, her; why judge your daughter-in-law more harshly than your son when they’re both in the house, car, jobs and locales you helped underwrite?
And it seems you’ve been ungenerous in sharing your thought process, too, since you’re well into getting resentful for their failure to read your minds.
Basically, it’s time for a complete swap. Any blanks you’ve filled in with judging, go instead with transparency and communication.
Each of these is judgy or judgy-adjacent: “weren’t willing to adjust their employment”; “spending on things that are not necessary”; “we had just assumed … they’d cut back”; “she’s sucking up to not endanger the gravy train.” (Yikes.)
So, first, wipe out the judginess entirely by using the version of events with the least embellishment: They are treating your gift of the nanny as something you want and can afford to give — because you haven’t told them otherwise. That’s it. All the other stuff is potentially toxic clutter.
Now replace it with communication by setting a tone of honest disclosure. “We are starting to worry about our savings for retirement and long-term care.”
And: “We never intended to fund the nanny indefinitely — but we never said that out loud to you, so of course how were you to supposed to read our minds? That’s our mistake.”
And: “We will not pull our support abruptly, but we would like to talk about tapering off.”
Then listen, and respond — claws in, minds open. The chances that you all hug it out in the end go way up if you can all look at it this way: It’s family wealth. So it’s not disappearing — you’re merely redeploying it to cushion them later in life.
Link three
4. DEAR SOMEONE ELSE’S MOM: With both sets of grandparents retired and living close by, what on earth could have made our daughter and son-in-law hire an au pair?
Up until they told us that was their decision, we had a perfectly working system covering the days both parents were out of the house.
We are all hurt and baffled. --- HURT BY THE CHANGE
DEAR HURT BY THE CHANGE: To avoid having this development turn into a wrench in your relationship with your daughter and son-in-law, I think it’s worth asking them the question you’ve sent my way.
Their decision may not be any kind of reflection on you and your fellow grandparents. The younger couple has their reasons for what they’ve decided to do, among which could be an assumption this is a good thing for the grandparents, a way to free up your days and enable you to enjoy your retirements more fully. But you won’t know if you don’t politely and calmly ask.
Link four
no subject
2. This has gotta be ragebait. I know people like this exist, but how are you gonna get all the way to writing it out for posterity and not realize that you're the villain?
3. The house and car may well be necessary. But I'm not sure what LW3 wants here - wants them to put the kids in daycare a few days a week? Wants them to increase the childcare stipend? Both? At any rate, as Carolyn points out, this all will need to be resolved via honest communication.
4. Bonus letter I just added! LW4, putting aside "we're all hurt and baffled", which probably means "I, personally, am hurt and baffled and have projected that onto everybody else without asking", the obvious answer to your question is that your "perfectly working system" wasn't perfectly working at all. Anyway, why are you asking anyone and everyone but your child and their partner?
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
2. Deep entitlement on the part of the child here tbh - if it's even a real letter, as others have mentioned.
3. I feel for the LW's reasoning on wanting to pull back but their take is indeed deeply ungenerous. I do feel LW+spouse would be very reasonable in saying that they need to start considering their own long term care prospects and the cost of aging, and present a firm plan on tapering the allowance off rather than opening it as a discussion.
4. LW 4 should read all these other letters and consider their good fortune in that they're not expected to provide free childcare indefinitely, their kids are paying for the au pair themselves, etc. LOL.
In general I feel that this is good advice across the board.
no subject
And given that LW writes, "this is not the only time she has made awkward or hurtful comments about people I care deeply about, including my husband," maybe the best approach is to just leave the situation be. If anyone asks, LW can say they wouldn't dream of imposing on her.
no subject