Miss Manners: Talking About Religion: Make No Assumptions

[minoanmiss]

DEAR MISS MANNERS: I used to be religious, many years ago, but I now identify as pagan -- meaning that I believe in the powers of Mother Earth, and that everything she’s created is sacred.

My beliefs are personal, and I don’t discuss them with others unless directly asked.

Because the majority of people believe in God, there’s a general societal belief that everyone does. I’ve been around those who speak freely about their beliefs to the point where I feel like I’m being beaten over the head.

I respect their beliefs, but at the same time, I’d like to say something to remind these speakers that not everyone shares them. How do I tell people that we nonbelievers do not want to hear about their religion ad nauseam?

GENTLE READER: Techniques for changing the subject of a conversation rely on a combination of surprise and persistence, Miss Manners notes. Those who dominate conversations usually do so by having relentless personalities -- and by never coming up for air.

With the right accomplice -- and the right timing -- you could interject, “Yes, our community subscribes to many different faiths. But perhaps that’s a topic for another time.” And then launch into a new topic with a willing partner.

Alternatively, when faced with a near-lecture on theology, you could expound on your beliefs in Mother Earth and her powers.

Comments

[minoanmiss]

What is this advice? One suggestion pretty much requires a comrade and the other is just ridiculous.

I wish I had advice for LW. I recognize the behavior they describe. I was taught to do it. If someone doesn't want to talk about God/Christianity we were supposed to Push The Good News All The More because the person Clearly Needed It. What cured me of this was realizing people did not like it when I pulled this on them (and then leaving the Church altogether instead of running into their arms for comfort). All I can suggest is walking away, if possible.

[full_metal_ox]

Missionaries (particularly youthful ones) are, of course, being set up for rejection: the implicit message being that the profane world is hostile and the Church is all you’ve got and all you’ll ever need (and God won’t help you if you antagonize them.)

Any conversions they actually manage to effect are a bonus.

[minoanmiss]

precisely I didn't realize that until years after I left but it made me glad once again that I did. Fortunately when people gave me the stink-eye for proselytizing I thought "what's wrong with what I'm doing?" rather than "why are they so mean to me?"

[matsushima]

I guess it depends on where these conversations are happening? If it's at work, it should be pretty easy (unless you work for, e.g., a parochial school or other explicitly religious employer) to say something like, "Sorry, this isn't something I feel comfortable talking about with my coworkers" or even making a joke about "religion, politics, and finances" being off-limits at work.

I'm not sure how I would handle this outside of work. Thoughts? I'm pretty good at ending conversations when strangers come knocking at my door but I don't know what I'd say in a casual social situation with people I'm not particularly close with.

[adrian_turtle]

It really depends how it comes up. Sometimes there's a clear start to the religious talk and a clear point to ask somebody not to preach at you. But if a friend of a friend is expressing condolences on the death of somebody's grandma, it often starts with "I'm so sorry, may she rest in peace" and slides over to "Grief is really hard. I'll be praying for you," which you can answer as "Thanks for your good wishes," on the polite assumption that some people have trouble saying "I wish you well" without religious words. It's when they get to, "Was she saved?" that you need to say, "Faith is so intensely personal...I'd really rather not discuss it.

Saying you'd rather not discuss faith is probably the best approach, even though it's often very tempting to say something about your own beliefs or why theirs are wrong.

[pauraque]

I have no idea what I would do in this situation because it's never come up. I guess I've been lucky not to be in spaces where people make assumptions like that.

[azurelunatic]

Being eclectic, non-Wiccan neopagan leaves me with an advantage over this LW, perhaps, because my system of worship comes with a well-known symbol. A dear friend gave me a necklace over two decades ago. I like to fiddle with my necklace at strategic moments, and sometimes find urgent business elsewhere.

[full_metal_ox]

Which brings to mind the time an extremely Jewish LJ correspondent of mine—-she could rattle off her lineage back to Aaron, in fluent Hebrew—-got called out for her (GASP!) six-pointed pentagram!

The Count from Sesame Street would be shrinking in abhorrence, but not from the holy symbol.

[lethe1]

A six-pointed pentagram, hahaha!

[ysobel]

...

six pointed pentagram

*dies and is dead*

[ashbet]

Me, a pedant: "But . . . PENTA-gram, can you not read??!?"

Also, knowing the level of problems antisemitism causes . . . hoo boy.

[full_metal_ox]

Me, a pedant: "But . . . PENTA-gram, can you not read??!?"

Them, ignoramuses: “You expect people who flunked kindergarten arithmetic to know Greek roots?”

And yeah—-institutionalized Christian witch-hunting as practiced in the Renaissance and the Early Modern era was an outgrowth of Jew-hunting.

[cimorene]

I mean, you CAN change the subject without an accomplice, it just isn't as foolproof when there aren't enough people to talk over them. But if you want to talk to the person more than you want to just leave, it's worth a try. But changing the subject and then refusing to talk about religion anymore is always an option.

[mrissa]

"If someone is being obnoxious about their religion, change your values system to be obnoxious about yours." No. No. The second paragraph of this letter was not there accidentally. It is not a coincidence that the LW just happened to bring up. It is how she values behaving. What terrible advice.

[minoanmiss]

Word. AND, the advice is not only horrifically unsuited to the LW it is actually counterproductive. Someone who won't stop talking about religion is going to relish what they see as a religious debate.

[melannen]

This really depends on what kind of talking they are doing. If you are just in an environment with a lot of people for whom their faith is a huge part of their life, and all they are doing is talking about their life with each other, it's not really fair to ask them to censor that just because you don't share that part of their life. Someone talking about the youth group event they helped with or saying they praise the Lord that they weren't hurt in the car accident last night isn't doing it at you and unless you are really close friends you can't expect them to censor half their life, even if it's the fifteenth time you've heard someone praise the Lord today and it feels like you can't stand it anymore.

If they are doing it at you, then the best thing is to just leave. If it's a work situation and HR seems likely to do their job, talk to HR about proselytizing at work. Otherwise, leave. You don't have to argue back but you don't have to listen either.

If they aren't proselytizing but they are making assumptions that you will agree - like asking you to pray for them in passing, or whatever - that's when you get to practice saying "Oh that's not my thing anymore, but - [I wish you well] or [I'm glad it's helping you]" or whatever. You don't have to go into detail about your own faith to do this. If they respond by proselytizing, then leave.

[ashbet]

When people ask for prayers around me, I usually say "I'm wishing you the very best/hoping for the best possible outcome" (phrasing adjusted according to appropriateness for the circumstances), and that usually goes over decently.