agonyaunt | (no subject)

DEAR MISS MANNERS: My neighbor and I had a heated disagreement about trick-or-treating.

We are fortunate to live in a picturesque neighborhood of single-family houses, and our street is popular every Oct. 31. We often get trick-or-treaters from other areas.

Although I like having lots of kids to give treats to, my neighbor says this year, she is refusing to give candy to any “outsiders.” She says these children and their parents are “mooching.”

She actually hopes to get the neighborhood association to ban outsiders that night. At the very least, she will ask each child’s parents to prove they live in the neighborhood.

I think this is ludicrous and against the whole spirit of the carefree holiday. She says she is just correcting poor upbringing. Is she?

GENTLE READER: More like demonstrating it.

Miss Manners is guessing that these children are in your neighborhood because it is safer than theirs -- in terms of foot traffic, at least. But apparently not in terms of kindness.

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The year after my father died was also the last year I went trick or treating. I have the impression that kids keep going longer now than they did then, I don't know.

Anyway, at one house the woman gave to my older sister, gave to her friend - and then looked at me and said "Don't you think you're too old for this?"

My mother literally never forgave her. Even in her last few months, which by the way were in the summer, she mentioned her at least once in conversation as an example of a heinous witch.

So, if LW's neighbor wants to be cursed out on people's actual deathbeds, then by all means, she should continue with her plans, this year and every other.

"Don't you think you're too old for this" should never be asked until someone is AT LEAST in their 30s.

Teens and 20 somethings deserve candy too if they are willing to dress up.

This year I told two people who were most likely in their 30s tha tthey were NOT too old and their costumes deserved candy. Which I gave them.

We are open to anyone in costume getting candy from us. (For older children who aren't in obvious costume, we have asked in the past what their costume is. And "My name is Miles Morales" or other daytime identity of a superhero would be an acceptable answer.)

Also, I typoed in there, and I think "superheron" would be an extremely fun costume.

giggle giggle giggle

When my daughter was still trick-or-treating *and I was still accompanying her* she got lectured by one neighbor that she was too old. I am still salty.

This halloween I gave candy to everyone who came to the door, parent or child, regardless of age. It's a tradition here that the trick-or-treaters tell a joke or sing a song for their treat, though I don't enforce that of course, and I got a lovely little serenade from a young man with a beard in exchange for three pieces of candy. And nice little conversations or greetings from everyone else.

Why would anyone want to deny a tiny pleasure to someone else if they can afford to give it? We need more joy in the world, and halloween trick-or-treat is one of the last vestiges of community joy.

GENTLE READER,

Miss Manners assures you that it is in fact courteous to protect your neighborhood and the visiting children by fighting the neighbor tooth and nail in the neighborhood association. If, in doing so, you also tell your neighbor that she is a hateful, child-hating, classist, almost certainly racist, NIMBY, show-your-papers waste of oxygen, Miss Manners promises never to tell a soul.

Edited 2024-11-07 07:23 (UTC)

LW's neighbor is an asshole and I hope kids from all over TP her house.

… oh, and you know LW's neighbor is white and these ""outsiders"" are BIPOC.

I mean, yeah, it might be safer for foot traffic. It might also be that they have a friend in the area. It might also be that someone decorates their house elaborately and that's a draw. All of that is okay. I wish we got more trick-or-treaters.

Why are people terrible? Fight on, LW, fight on! Feel free to eat a few pieces of chocolate to sustain you!

Yes!

If LW needs to set a budget of how much $ or $$ she can spend on candy, fine!

But hand out candy unstintingly regardless of where anyone comes from (and ***don't ask*** where anyone comes from!) until you run out, and then turn off the porch light when you run out of candy.

Don't ask anyone for ID! Don't act like anyone is unwelcome!

she is refusing to give candy to any “outsiders.” She says these children and their parents are “mooching.”

Let me guess, these kids are also from the less wealthy areas of town, right? Tell the neighbour if she's going to discriminate on handing out candy like that, then don't hand out any candy at all. Neighbour should just not put up any decorations and turn off all the lights on Halloween night. Problem solved.

So, it's hard to tell what the context is here. There are neighborhoods in my area that regularly get 500+ kids on a street of maybe 20 houses because they've become known as the "good" neighborhood to trick-or-treat, and it becomes a legitimate burden on the neighbors and a safety issue, to the point that houses need extra people to come over to volunteer as crowd and traffic control and sometimes even to designate extra parking areas.

If LW's neighborhood is in that situation - if they've become The Neighborhood to the point it's a serious problem - it probably is worth working with local neighborhood associations to try to figure out a better solution. (Banning "outsiders" is not the solution, but maybe coming up with alternate trick-or-treat events for kids whose neighborhoods aren't suited for it would be one solution, or figuring out ways to work together to promote trick-or-treating in the other neighborhoods, or asking for extra resources/assistance from other areas to manage things. Or you could work with the neighborhood association to quietly move your trick-or-treating to a different date, and hopefully divert some of the outsiders that way.)

But there's a big range between "we get a few dozen extra kids from nearby" and "it's so crowded it's become a serious safety issue" and if this one neighbor is the only one complaining it's probably pretty far down the scale.

Also even if the only possible solution is to stop giving candy to outsiders until they leave, the solution isn't to "ban outsiders" - if it's at the point that most of the neighbors agree it's a problem it usually solves itself within a few years anyway as more and more neighbors decide it's not worth it, turn off their lights and lock their doors, and it stops being the good neighborhood.

Does LW live in my parents' neighborhood? They usually get between 150 to 300 kids a year depending on weather and where in the week Halloween falls. My parents figure everyone wants a safe place to trick-or-treat. They like being in a popular Halloween neighborhood. Of course they have plenty of folks around who are like LW's neighbor. Those folks have been encouraged to turn off the porch light and not participate. Perhaps LW's neighbor could try that next year.