conuly: (Default)
conuly ([personal profile] conuly) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2024-03-25 07:39 pm

Christ, what an asshole

Dear Annie: I live on the West Coast where the unhoused population continues to increase every year, along with a massive fentanyl addiction issue. I am well aware that not all unhoused people are addicts, but I also have enough experience interacting with this subset of the community to know that many of the people who walk around asking for money do have an addiction, whether it may be fentanyl, alcohol or something else.

My question is whether you have a suggested response that conveys "no" without saying "sorry"? I feel very weird apologizing for not giving money to these people who I have a very specific reason to not give money to, but "sorry" is the only response I have observed from family, friends and co-workers when out and about. And, admittedly, as a woman sometimes walking alone, it doesn't always feel like "no" is necessarily a safe choice, as it seems like it could be perceived as confrontational by the asker (and I also admit that could be in my head, as I haven't been willing to try!).

Do you think a "no" by itself could be fine, or do you have another suggestion? -- Donating to Charity, not Addiction


Dear Donating to Charity: I do think a "no" can be a bit harsh to say to someone who is asking you for money on the streets, but you are right to donate to charity rather than street hustlers. Addiction is a disease, and many of these people are suffering very terrible symptoms of the disease, and they won't get any treatment if they stay on the streets. "I'm sorry" might be a slightly more polite way to turn down a sick person who is struggling to live.

You might consider getting involved in community affairs or local politics, where homelessness has become a major issue, not just in the state you live in but across the nation.

Link
castiron: cartoony sketch of owl (Default)

[personal profile] castiron 2024-03-26 12:16 am (UTC)(link)
Given the number of people who complain about someone saying "I'm sorry" as a response to hearing about a crappy situation ("why are they saying sorry? they didn't cause it!") and the number of people who complain about having to say any social formula they don't sincerely feel, I'm not surprised that someone would ask for advice on what to say that isn't "sorry".

I figure "sorry" is a reasonable thing to say -- I regret that I can't fix their problems, and even if I had small change to give away I'm not opening my bag on the street and I recognize that my unwillingness to get out my wallet means I'm not helping them in the short term either, and I regret that I'm not rich enough to buy food for all fifteen of the homeless people I've passed walking two blocks downtown. (I've still gotten a "f you!" in response to "sorry", but most folks just nod and turn to the next passerby.)
castiron: cartoony sketch of owl (Default)

[personal profile] castiron 2024-03-26 01:51 am (UTC)(link)
Which is much of the fun of reading advice columns.
likeaduck: Cristina from Grey's Anatomy runs towards the hospital as dawn breaks, carrying her motorcycle helmet. (Default)

[personal profile] likeaduck 2024-03-26 03:39 am (UTC)(link)
I mean, the reasoning behind it isn't great? The judgement the LW has for drug/alcohol users/addicts (but probably just the ones visibly living with poverty) just fucking wafts off the page.
likeaduck: Cristina from Grey's Anatomy runs towards the hospital as dawn breaks, carrying her motorcycle helmet. (Default)

[personal profile] likeaduck 2024-04-01 07:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I kinda think "sound" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.
movingfinger: (Default)

[personal profile] movingfinger 2024-03-26 12:16 am (UTC)(link)
If this LW is doing anything like walking around SF, not answering at all is fine. She doesn't owe any random on the street a social interaction, no matter who they are.

I advise her to invest in the extra-dark sunglasses and shoes that allow her to walk briskly.
movingfinger: (Default)

[personal profile] movingfinger 2024-03-26 04:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Heh. Given her not-sorriness, she could try screaming "Fuck off! No! Drop dead! Fuck you!" instead of "Sorry" or silence. Annie seems not even to have considered that option!
ashbet: (Default)

[personal profile] ashbet 2024-03-26 03:56 am (UTC)(link)
This person is SUCH an asshole -- not because they won't give, but because they're being utterly judgmental of people who are suffering.

Also, Annie has NO FUCKING CLUE. "They won't get any treatment if they stay on the street" -- GUESS WHAT, it's not even all that easy to access treatment if you have a solid job and a house, because you put yourself at risk of losing those things if you go inpatient or have to go to a methadone clinic daily (which is also hugely stigmatizing.)

As it turns out, you 100% can lose your job if you seek treatment, so the idea that it's just waiting for anyone who "wants to" try to overcome an addiction is bullshit. It's also expensive, and there are waiting lists for placements.

Anyone who says this kind of thing doesn't have firsthand knowledge of a friend or loved one who is struggling with addiction and TRYING to get the help they need.
lilysea: Serious (Default)

[personal profile] lilysea 2024-03-26 05:18 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, I don't have first hand knowledge of a friend or loved one who is struggling with addiction (unless you count my grandparents alcoholism, which I only know about through second hand stories)

but I used to work for the Health Department's National Illicit Drugs Strategy

and there is a ***dire*** shortage of affordable addiction treatment available worldwide, including the US and Australia. To be honest, the best access to affordable addiction treatment in Australia is in prison. :(

Also, there are long waiting lists for many programs (outside of prison)

Also, some programs have been caught doing deep dodginess - there was one program in Australia (NOT in prison) that was caught getting lots of compulsory unpaid labour out of people who were in the residential treatment program on the grounds that it was "good for them" - the addiction service (which was getting government money!) was hiring out people in the residential treatment program to third party businesses. The third party businesses were paying for the labour, but the people in the treatment program didn't see a cent, the addiction service was pocketing it all, even though they were already being paid by the government. Any one who complained about the compulsory unpaid labour got thrown out of the program. It ended up being a scandal in the news.
ashbet: (Default)

[personal profile] ashbet 2024-03-26 06:00 am (UTC)(link)
That is ATROCIOUS :/
lilysea: Serious (Default)

[personal profile] lilysea 2024-03-26 06:09 am (UTC)(link)
There's also a Christian branded drug rehab service here in Australia, "Shalom House", where

a) everyone entering has to have their head shaved as a sign of "a committent to a fresh start"

b) everyone has to attend compulsory Sunday church services every week, regardless of their religion or lack of religion

:(
ashbet: (Default)

[personal profile] ashbet 2024-03-26 06:29 am (UTC)(link)
Vile — the head-shaving is really dehumanizing, and forced religious services in exchange for medical treatment (the US unfortunately has “charities“ like this for things like food bank assistance, as well) is incredibly ethically violating, to me.
lilysea: Serious (Default)

[personal profile] lilysea 2024-03-26 06:56 am (UTC)(link)
I 100% agree. The head shaving reminds me of Irish Magdalen Homes for Unmarried Mothers in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s :(

Unfortunately, pretty much all residential care for drug treatment in Australia

falls into

a) very expensive and only for the rich

b) very religious

c) you have to be in jail to access it

I am very unhappy about this state of affairs

(I would also like to see lots of drugs decriminalised as criminal laws are a major barrier to accessing treatment)
cimorene: cartoony drawing of a woman's head in profile giving dubious side-eye (Default)

[personal profile] cimorene 2024-03-26 08:14 am (UTC)(link)
WOW, wtf to all of that! And yet also not exactly a huge surprise, just maybe... slightly worse than I would have expected.

100% agree. The situation is horrible and victimizes people further who just need help. Decriminalization is probably a necessary step to fixing these problems worldwide.
lilysea: Serious (Default)

[personal profile] lilysea 2024-03-26 08:27 am (UTC)(link)
The Australian Capital Territory (where Canberra is located)

has recently started a new program

where small, personal use quantities of eg marijuana, cocaine etc

trigger a fine, and not a jail sentence

I think this is a good first step.

Personally, I would like to see a situation where personal use quantities did not trigger any legal consequences as long as

1. not being supplied to people under 18

2. not driving a car, motorcycle, or other heavy machinery while intoxicated

3. not consuming in public places - eg no forcing everyone on the bus/train to breathe in your marijuana smoke

I say this as someone who has never used drugs or alcohol, but who has been to conferences where experts in drug and alcohol harm minimisation presented their research
lilysea: Serious (Default)

[personal profile] lilysea 2024-03-26 08:40 am (UTC)(link)
In Victoria, Australia

the state government runs a program that provides safe heroin injecting rooms

where people bring heroin that they have obtained by themselves

and inject it themselves, but in a room under the supervision of a paid staff member with medical training

the aim is

1. to prevent deaths from accidental overdoses - the staff members have Narcan to hand and can do CPR

2. to ensure that people use clean needles/syringes to reduce the risk of transmission of Hepatitis B, Hepatitis C, and HIV, and to reduce the risk of infection

3. to provide an opportunity to gently and respectfully nudge IV drug users towards treatment options


the program has been a massive success - among other things, it means less deaths from accidental overdoses, but also less ambulance call outs -

so much so that the State government approved funding for opening a second site

but the problem is that all of the residents/businesses near the first site hate it being there

and no one wants to have their home/business near a second site either :(
ashbet: (Default)

[personal profile] ashbet 2024-03-26 02:58 pm (UTC)(link)
The US Has a couple of those supervised use sites, but they keep getting shut down, despite providing measurable harm reduction.

We have a seriously Puritan streak about punishing people who suffer from addiction, rather than offering help.
ethelmay: (Default)

[personal profile] ethelmay 2024-03-26 08:10 pm (UTC)(link)
One of the many reasons I stopped being even casual friends with a schoolmate I'd known for some fifty years was that they wouldn't stop talking about safe injection sites as "shooting galleries" and the like. I have a family member who overcame heroin addiction and was bloody lucky not to have gotten AIDS at a time when it would surely have been fatal.
likeaduck: Cristina from Grey's Anatomy runs towards the hospital as dawn breaks, carrying her motorcycle helmet. (Default)

[personal profile] likeaduck 2024-03-26 11:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Canada had a court case a few years ago that ruled that criminalising the supervised injection site in Vancouver violated a Charter right.
magid: (Default)

[personal profile] magid 2024-03-26 05:28 pm (UTC)(link)
It also really bothers me that a Christian place would name themselves using a clearly Hebrew/Jewish name.
ethelmay: (Default)

[personal profile] ethelmay 2024-03-26 08:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, they think they own that stuff because Christianity is the upgraded version of Judaism or some shit. Also it sounds better than "Peace House."
magid: (Default)

[personal profile] magid 2024-03-26 09:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Yup. And it still pisses me off.
ashbet: (Default)

[personal profile] ashbet 2024-03-27 01:19 am (UTC)(link)
I also had a visceral cringe reaction to the name!
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[personal profile] dissectionist 2024-03-26 03:43 pm (UTC)(link)
These ignorant fucks. If Annie thinks that the only thing standing between an unhoused person and a life of happy sobriety is the fact that strangers are giving them a dollar here and there, she is so far from the ballpark that she’s on the Moon.

I’ve had multiple friends dealing with addiction who had families capable of covering $20k-$25k/month in treatment for 4-6 months (which involved remortgaging their homes - these aren’t ultrarich folks with oodles of money lying around in the bank) and they were willing to go out-of-state for treatment, and they still couldn’t access treatment. They called center after center after center and everything was packed to the gills. You know how the opioid crisis is hitting all socioeconomic classes? That means there’s a whole lot more people seeking treatment, to the point where even my upper-middle-class friends can’t find a spot. It took them 6-12 months (or in one case an overdose months later, that led to emergency care that led to some kind of string getting pulled by doctors in the emergency department; the placement was awful but she lived).

If my friends with $100k+, the ability to travel, and social support that helped them apply for spots and then follow up on endless numbers of applications couldn’t get access to care in anything approaching a reasonable fashion or at all, what chance in hell does an unhoused person have? And my friends had support when they got out in finding new apartments away from their old haunts (and the relapse triggers there), constant social support for sobriety, and financial assistance from their family while they struggled to find new jobs and get established. What support is an unhoused person going to have? How long do you think sobriety is likely to last after they’re dumped back to a miserable, dehumanizing existence on the streets?

I just… god. I don’t even know what I wish on LW and Annie, but it would be some kind of negative experience that teaches them some humanity and understanding of the beast of addiction.
jamoche: Prisoner's pennyfarthing bicycle: I am NaN (Default)

[personal profile] jamoche 2024-03-26 05:58 pm (UTC)(link)
About 30 years ago, there was a homeless guy who hung around the strip mall that contained a grocery store and our karate studio, who would not accept cash and would only accept food if you took the label off - let me emphasize that he was the one who insisted on that. Because he didn't trust himself not to take it right back into the store, get cash for it, buy booze, and restart his addiction cycle. He had a family that cared for him, all the support he could need, had been through multiple rehabs - nothing worked for him.