agonyaunt | (no subject)

(no subject)

Dear Care and Feeding,

I have two highly achieving kids and one who seems to hate them. “Dan” (26) has been running a successful business he started in college. “Yuki” (20) graduated from high school early and is on track to finish college early as well. Because they are both away from home, I sometimes update “Lily” (16) about what they’re doing, which usually involves academic achievement or some personal success. Lily always gets upset when I do this, saying that I wished she was more high achieving. I’m not intending to compare them and don’t want Lily to think that I am, but my attempts to reassure her of this seem futile. Lily isn’t academically oriented and is planning to go into sports or the arts, and I have no problem with either, but she doesn’t seem to believe me when I tell her this. I’ve stopped giving her updates on her siblings, but it saddens me to know that Lily struggles to just be happy for them, and that I can’t share a bit of their lives with her.

Recently, Yuki briefly returned home for the first time since leaving for college and brought her girlfriend, who Lily scoffed at. She hardly acknowledged either of them, and if either of them tried to interact with her, she acted uncharacteristically rudely. Lily also wouldn’t give up her passenger seat in the car to Yuki, who has been in several risky situations/accidents and is very uncomfortable sitting in the backseat. Lily denies any resentment towards her siblings, but I find it difficult to believe her. I’m not sure why she would knowingly make Yuki (and her girlfriend) distressed and uncomfortable in her own home. I have always feared that Lily resented her siblings, but my worries seemed unfounded previously. They were all quite close before university, though now that I think about it, the friendship was largely between the older two. Both Dan and Yuki will be visiting soon. I worry that Lily will give them, and possibly herself, a difficult time. How do I handle this?

—Smart Sibling Struggle?

Dear Struggle,

It’s really hard to feel like you’re the black sheep in the family, especially when it’s due to an accumulation of lots of small things that, by themselves, sound like nothing, but add up to a something. It sounds like Lily’s gotten the message over the years that her two siblings walk on water, whether in your eyes and/or in everyone else’s. It might be worth some introspection on that point. You may not have intended it, but have you praised Dan and Yuki for their accelerated success rather often, proudly, or publicly? Are Dan and Yuki known outside the family for being superstars, to the point where anytime a neighbor or family friend discusses them, their successes are brought up?

Conversely, does anyone notice any particular strengths or virtues of Lily’s, and are they ever commented on? Is Lily known for her assets, or is she “Dan and Yuki’s sister?” It doesn’t sound like Lily is looked down upon, but is she, or her interests, perhaps treated with disinterest? For example, you write that Lily is into sports and art and “you have no problem with either.” That’s not the verbiage of a proud parent—I’m not saying you aren’t proud of her, but I wonder if perhaps you aren’t as excited about those pursuits and Lily’s picking up on it. You may have heard the saying, “The opposite of love isn’t hate; it’s indifference.” Reflect on whether Lily feels her family is indifferent to her, and how isolating that might feel. Does she feel she can succeed on her own terms and be equally as valued as her siblings?

If that’s what’s going on, then no, it really isn’t about resenting her siblings, as much as the general environment she feels she’s in. Add that to some general teenage malaise and stubbornness, and you have a pretty glum combination. Rather than tell her you value her, find some ways to demonstrate it. Talk to Lily and see if she can identify things about her siblings’ upcoming visit that could bother her, so that you can proactively minimize them (within reason). For example, maybe Lily gets annoyed hearing about Yuki’s girlfriend too much. You can tell her you’ll keep your ears open and ask Yuki to cool it if it gets out of hand. This kind of conversation would show Lily respect by acknowledging that having her siblings home after so much time away isn’t an easy feat for the kid who’s had the run of the house and parents in the interim—and you’d be reducing her triggers as well.

Meanwhile, give Dan and Yuki a heads up and ask them to go easy on any attitude that Lily throws at them, but also encourage the siblings to spend some time together as either a trio or in pairs. You might also think about an activity or two for the visit. Cheesy stuff like bowling, minigolf, and party games can get people to loosen up and step outside of their traditional family roles and patterns. (Maybe pick something that Dan or Yuki are likely to be terrible at.) And then, as you move forward, be sure that stories of Dan and Yuki’s mundanity and Lily’s victories, however minor, are shared among the siblings. With patience and slight adjustments, hopefully, you’ll see things improve.

—Allison

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The commenters absolutely ripped this LW apart, making all the same points I was already about to make here, namely:

1. LW does not sound very enthusiastic or interested in Lily's successes or passions. "Art" and "sports" are not only two very different things but also such vague terms as to be meaningless. Does she like to paint or sculpt? Soccer or volleyball?

2. Those kids are spaced far enough apart that it's reasonable that none of them might be very close with each other. In particular, Dan and Lily would always be at very different stages in life at their current ages.

3. However, if they want to talk to each other, they can surely do so on their own. They don't need LW to be an intermediary!

4. If LW wants to update Lily on her siblings' lives - or vice versa - is it honestly the case that the only matter of discussion is their perceived successes? Because that's a little toxic. You can't say "Dan was telling me about this movie - didn't you watch that with your friends? It sounds interesting, maybe we should all watch it together?" or anything else that isn't boasting?

5. The front passenger seat is not as safe as the backseat. It is, furthermore, a bit weird to sit in the back with your sister's girlfriend while your sister sits in the front passenger seat. If Yuki is suffering from severe anxiety then Lily may need to suck it up, but if Yuki is simply a little "uncomfortable" then it's reasonable for Lily to also be "uncomfortable" at sitting in the back with her sister's girlfriend, a woman she does not know. Why is it rude for Lily to not cede to her sister? (I'm really not clear at all how Yuki genuinely feels about the front seat. That word "uncomfortable" can mean anything.)

6. Yuki left for college "early" and now she's 20 and this is the first time she's been home? It's been at least four years! This is not normal, LW! And it's not exactly a stellar commentary on your parenting practices that one of our three children ran off for college just as soon as she was able and hasn't been home since.

So, yeah. I don't know the exact shape of LW's parenting, but I'm sure it's not great.

I agree with most of this, but for #1, artists are often not into just one thing (and I’ve never met a young artist that was; they’re busy trying All The Things to figure out what they love). If I tried to break down what I do as art, I’d have to list (at a minimum) 5-6 different activities, unless I was trying to be comprehensive with the ones I do moderately often but not constantly,, in which case there’d be well over a dozen. “Sculpting or painting” is more likely, for the average artist, to be “sculpting, painting, papercraft, drawing, multimedia collage, etc.”, and it really is just simpler and more understandable to say “I make art”. I’ll go into the weeds with other artists to discuss the nuances of what we do, but I’d never expect my family, friends, or other people discussing me to say more than that I’m an artist.

I’d never expect my family, friends, or other people discussing me to say more than that I’m an artist

Really? Because I definitely know what artistic things my niece is very interested in versus what she's only a little interested in or not at all.

And I do at least know the difference between arts and sports.

It wouldn’t surprise me to have them mention a specific project I’d done if it particularly impressed me (like “they’re an artist, you should see this made this amazing dress recently”), but yeah, if they’re just talking about me in general terms to others, I wouldn’t expect them to go on at length about my specific disciplines even though they know. If a discipline is specified (“they’re a painter”) to me that means they’re a specialist in one thing. If they’re described as an “artist”, I’m going to assume they’re multi-disciplinary.

Similarly, if someone says they’re into soccer, then I assume soccer is their thing and they may or may not be interested in other sports. If they’re described as being into sports, then I assume it’s sports in general that they like, and they have multiple sports they watch, may play themselves, etc.

If someone is into sports in general, there’s nothing wrong with saying they’re into sports rather than specifying multiple ones they’re into. If they’re only into one, then it should be specified because they’re not actually into sports in general, they’re just into that one sport.

watercolorpolo

sculptball

theatre tennis

pickleperformance

all cromulent artsport careers for Lily

Chessboxing would probably not appear on the list, it being an academicsport.

watercolorpolo

sculptball

theatre tennis

pickleperformance

all cromulent artsport careers

You win the internet for today! ^_^

Do Dan and Yuki get updates when Lily has finished a major art project or done a big sports thing?

It sounds like Lily’s feeling a lot of pressure to excel and possibly not getting enough emotional/social room to figure out what she wants. I’m not sure that hovering over the kids trying to manage how they get along is as good of a move as Allison thinks it is. Lily will know that’s happening and my guess is she will not like it.

Also, the LW doesn’t believe what Lily says about her feelings. That’s a situation where Lily can’t win, so it would be no surprise if she were developing resentment, even if she started out without it.

I also don’t understand why LW has to update Lily on her siblings. This is the era of social media and I’m sure Lily would have no trouble keeping up with her siblings’ lives should she and they wish it.

So my advice would be, express more interest in what Lily’s interested in (preferably by actually becoming more interested in it) and stay out of intervening in the kids’ relationships with each other.

Yeah, all of these are good points, but I'm really struck by the futility of this lw since they seem so completely lacking in awareness, or else they're a deliberately unreliable narrator. Either way, their testimony leaves so much space that there are quite a few possibilities for what's really going on and it's kinda impossible to tell from just this which it is. The avser highlighted some, but in a way it seems to give lw too much credit, bc even if they mean well, I don't see evidence of someone who can carry out those conversations with Lily successfully. What would help Lily most might be therapy, or just someone to talk to from outside this family, but we know so little that it's actually possible she already has that. Either way, LW seems to need their eyes dramatically opened, but there's not really time for extensive therapy before this visit.

Edited (Autocorrect ) 2024-02-06 11:52 (UTC)

As for the advice, shoving the children together in a bowling alley to enjoy a recreation together is fantastic, Dan (26), Yuki (20), and Lily (16) who don't follow each other on social media and have been set up all their lives to be competitive will have a memorably fun outing!

There are rumbles of LW having screwed up here and not just on ignoring Lily in favor of her more satisfying siblings, who are now moving themselves out of LW's orbit.

Lily: it gets better. You too can leave for college and not go home. Soon. Keep the grades decent and get out of there.

If Lily's family is anything like mine, the best way to bring the siblings together would be for LW to make an absolute fool of herself =D everyone can bond by laughing at Mom.

I feel like there's a lot of missing explanations here. Does Lily never interact with her sibs unless they come home? WHY has it been so long since Dan or Yuki was home? It's not unusual that people ten and four years apart don't have a really close relationship, but I feel like if Dan or Yuki wanted to have a relationship with their sister, they would. I would. Maybe Lily has a perfectly good reason not to want them in her life, and it has as much to do with them as LW.

Seems to me LW has made it pretty clear what she values and Lily's output ain't it.

Also, seems to me LW has a concrete idea of how her children should relate to each other, and they're not fitting the plan.

Finally, Lily is 16. There's a whole lot happening in Lily's head and emotions and life at this time. A bit of slack for her would be really really valuable.

...Actually, this sounds A LOT like some friends of mine twenty years ago. Oldest son: genius-level, at uni at 12. Middle daughter: brilliant, at uni at 16. Youngest daughter: "normal" - smart, delightful, but standard level of development.

Their parents seemed pretty good about valuing their kids according to the interests of each kid, but it was still rough for the 'Lily' of that family. Also: rough for the other two in their own ways - I was friends with both him and her: he was my age, his sister was a couple of years younger but the advanced education meant we were in the same classes at the same time. I'm still 'catch-up friends' with her.

In conclusion: it's not easy being the youngest and 'normie' one of the family when you've got siblings who excel. Cutting Lily some slack sounds like an idea for LW. Just because LW's first two apparently conformed to their standards for what they wanted from their kids (and there's definitely a question mark above the kids' feelings about it), doesn't mean that Lily has to fall in line.

Comparing your children to and pitting them against each other is such a shitty thing to do, and so many parents don't even seem to realize they're doing it.

I'm the oldest of 5, with a 10 1/2 year age difference between me and the youngest; I am also the designated family fuckup (although my youngest sister once said that me being the fuckup set the bar really high for everyone else). For several years after I moved out of the house, my mother only called me to brag about something one of my siblings had done or to tell me about some kind of Big Major Problem - never any questions about what I was doing, no respect for my career or acknowledgement of my accomplishments - in fact, she was frequently telling me to quit my job and pick a different career where I would make less money because I was working with her siblings and she wouldn't want to do that. If I had been the youngest sibling instead of the oldest, I can see how I may have had some residual resentment impacting my sibling relationships.

A big part of me being the family fuckup is that I left the lifepath my mother thought I should be on when I was 20 and started working full-time instead of finishing a degree; my brother also dropped out of college, although he eventually went back. We were both described as "brilliant but lazy" or "intelligent but unmotivated" multiple times growing up. When my youngest sister was showing similar signs of not finishing schoolwork, my mother would snark "You're just like K and B, if you don't do your homework you're not going to get anywhere in life" or similar. I would not have blamed my sister at ALL if she wanted nothing to do with me after that, she could have very easily been a Lily.

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