agonyaunt | Two letters, one column

Two letters, one column

https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/missmanners/s-2843056

1. DEAR MISS MANNERS: Some time ago, I was doing contract work for a large company. One day I passed my boss in the hallway, and she asked if I'd been at lunch, since I wasn't at my desk.

I replied, "No, I was in the can."

She seemed shocked at my response. I thought I was just being honest. In a performance review, she praised my work but said I was "too familiar" with people. She's quite a bit younger than I am, so I'm wondering if age was the issue, or maybe gender. I've referred to "the can" with other guys I've worked with, and none of them had a problem with it.

Is there a better way to tell someone when you have to go or just went?

GENTLE READER: So many. But "Excuse me" or "I was indisposed" are the only ones suitable for polite company. Miss Manners will leave it to you to decide if your "other guys" qualify as such.

*********************

2. DEAR MISS MANNERS: My puppy is an unusual and striking color -- particularly for his breed, but really for any dog. Now that he's almost full-grown and lost a lot of his puppy cuteness, he's no longer stopping traffic while we're out for walks. (Literally. Once, a city bus came screeching to a halt and the bus driver ran out to give him cuddles.)

He still gets more than his fair share of compliments. The problem is that if the complimenter is also walking a dog, I feel obligated to say something in return, even though I know "boomerang" compliments are not required.

Usually I can at least manage a "Thank you -- and isn't she sweet! What's her name?" but sometimes, I'm afraid, it's simply impossible to think of anything remotely complimentary to say. (I expect "Oh, I didn't realize they made harnesses for rats!" won't fly.)

Is it acceptable to merely say "thank you" and not offer a compliment to the other dog in return?

GENTLE READER: Perfectly. Because your adorable widdle guy prolly has to piddle -- and will no doubt be urgently pulling you in that direction.

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I have no idea what LW1 was expecting when he wrote in to Miss Manners, but I do wonder how you can get to a point where you are old enough to have managers younger than you and still not know that not everybody needs all the details of your life at every moment.

Even if there's a reason people need to know you were in the bathroom, as the title to the column puts it, the word "restroom" was right there.

As for LW2, their dog is not that amazing and they need to get over themself. And also, stop being a dick about other people's dogs. Does this person also struggle to find something nice to say about other people's babies? It's not that hard! Here's the rule:

All brides/grooms are beautiful/handsome and their cake is delicious
All graduates are smart and/or hard-working
All babies are cute, unless they're crying, in which case they "have good lungs"
All well-behaved furry pets are also cute, even the literal winner of the world's ugliest dog competition (seriously, that dog is adorable and I just want to eat him up!)

This is not difficult!

Edited 2023-07-06 00:19 (UTC)

For LW#1: This story only makes sense for a young professional fresh out of college. I can't fathom why someone established in their career would be volunteering to let their coworkers know when they are going to the bathroom or just came from it. Unless maybe he is also the office chatterbox, in which case, the "too familiar" feedback would likely be about the "please shut up so your teammates can work" aspect in addition to "Also - no one cares when you are going to or coming from the bathroom - there is no need to announce departures/arrives - this isn't an airport."

I will admit I didn't see anything wrong with LW #1 (and I've been in the workforce for awhile.) If my manager is asking if the reason I wasn't at my desk is because I was at lunch, my assumption is that she's gently implying I was skiving off, and therefore being vague about what I was doing is a bad idea; and if someone is asking where I was, they're the one being nosy and it isn't TMI to let them know I was attending to a necessity.

(I also work in a workplace where there are stations that need coverage at all times, so if you are leaving your station while on shift you tell the other person on shift why you are leaving, as basic politeness.)

I wouldn't necessarily use the phrase "on the can" but that's mostly because it's not a natural part of my dialect; I have certainly used a variety of interesting euphemisms, though, it gets boring on night shift. (I definitely wouldn't respond to my boss asking why I wasn't at my desk with "excuse me"!!! And if someone told me they weren't at their desk because they were "indisposed" I would assume they were feeling unwell!)

Also I gotta say getting a negative comment on an evaluation because of one minor, non-harassing, not-repeated comment said in passing in the hall?? That seems excessive, and I have to wonder if there's a lot more going on here.

That seems excessive, and I have to wonder if there's a lot more going on here.

Yeah, I thought that too.

I don't find LW's word choice rude either, but it is less formal, since it's slang. So I can imagine they're one of the many people who finds it more shocking than "restroom" or "bathroom" or "toilet", whatever the standard term is in their dialect.

If my manager is asking if the reason I wasn't at my desk is because I was at lunch, my assumption is that she's gently implying I was skiving off, and therefore being vague about what I was doing is a bad idea; and if someone is asking where I was, they're the one being nosy and it isn't TMI to let them know I was attending to a necessity.

Agreed.

Also, I had no idea 'in the can' meant 'in the toilet'. I thought it meant 'in jail' :)

Also, I had no idea 'in the can' meant 'in the toilet'. I thought it meant 'in jail' :)

Maybe that's why the manager was shocked ;)

;)

Huh. Both my English-Dutch dictionary and my Shorter Oxford say "the can" is (among other things, such as "lavatory") US slang for "jail". So I didn't make it up.

I think it's probably regional or generational at some level. I'm American and "the can" has always been (slightly rude) "the restroom" to me.

Although finding out from this thread that to some people it means "jail" makes the lyrics to "Tweeter and the Monkey Man" make more sense:

The undercover cop
Never liked the Monkey Man
Even back in high school
Wanted to see him in the can

I'd just always assumed that it referred to the restroom as a site of school bullying (which it is). But the undercover cop wanting the Monkey Man to go to jail makes more sense.

My Shorter Oxford is 20 years old (and the English-Dutch dictionary even older), so that may well be the case.

Those lyrics do make more sense if "can" means "jail" there!

I used to work a security post that required 24/7 coverage, and one of my employees would stop by a couple times a day and ask if I needed to go to "the library" lol. Definitely appreciated it though, because if I asked for a bathroom break it could take up to 45 minutes to get coverage!

My guess is that this person is way too casual and too open on a regular basis to get that feedback, potentially in front of clients, upper management, etc. I know there was a huge difference in how I'd speak with my coworkers vs boss vs administration.

+1000 to all of this.

I don't see anything wrong with saying "I was in the toilet".

Being vague often leads to managers feeling that you were skiving off work.

But "the can" seems far too casual/slang/informal for work.

I don't see anything wrong with saying "I was in the toilet".

Being vague often leads to managers feeling that you were skiving off work.

My thoughts exactly. "Indisposed" sounds so comically old-fashioned to my ear that it reads as sarcastic or weirdly playful, as if they'd used one of the colorful phrases from Monty Python's dead parrot sketch instead of "died" or "passed away".

I think of "indisposed" as meaning "ill." Never heard before of it meaning "I was in the restroom" apart from an implied "because I was throwing up/having diarrhea."

Some bosses might also interpret "indisposed" as "hung over"

or interpret "indisposed" as "couldn't be bothered"

I've heard of it before, but I agree that it means "ill" to me as well, and I wouldn't use it for a bathroom visit unless there was some illness involved.

'Indisposed' surely has gendered overtones of woman indicating to male boss that it was with her as with the way of women without coming out and actually mentioning menstruation, blood, or the urgent need to apply sanitary protection.

I would never use "in the can" in an office environment (or ever, really), but I also would assume that if my boss was asking me why I wasn't at my desk, I had better have a good answer, or risk being penalized.

(I would have said "Sorry, I was in the restroom." Saying you were "indisposed" sounds like you're sick and possibly contagious, also TMI.)

I have to admit, I prefer “hit the can” for politeness than the endless talking about “bio breaks” that seems to be popular nowadays.

Although I would be more likely to say “just a minute, I need to visit the rest room” or similar and if I was just returning and was answering a question like LW than I would answer the lunch aspect (no, I already ate, or Im about to go to lunch” ) and not specify the restroom aspect at all.

But the current trend to pause meetings for “bio breaks” seems so much ruder and blunter than the LW’s familiarity and yet is so common that im not surprised that hit the can seemed fine to them.

Gosh, yes, I actually hate "bio break". I don't hear it in my work context, but mostly in raiding on FFXIV, and... you know what, guys, just tell me you need a minute. I don't need to know.

I've never heard the term "bio break" before! If I'd heard it in the wild, I would probably assume it was being used as a catch-all to cover using the bathroom, getting a quick snack/beverage, taking a little stretch/stroll, or maybe even getting that nicotine fix.

Yes, I actually mostly associate "bio break" with "my cups needs refilling," since when it's used on video chat it's usually accompanied by, like, visibly hefting an empty coffee mug, at least in my experience. Also sometimes "let's all take a bio break and stretch." It doesn't have bathroom-specific associations for me.

I love "bio break", it's so non-specific! I use it for going to the bathroom, getting a snack, filling up my water bottle, and stretching my legs. It just means "I would love to be meeting right now, but I have an inconvenient body, you understand." It's also communicates timeframe very effectively, and is wonderful when you're typing on your phone, which I often am when I'm explaining how soon I'm available for an impromptu meeting.

The phrase "I stepped away from my desk for a moment" covers bathroom visits, topping off beverage, quickly asking a coworker something in person, taking a personal phone call outside a shared workspace, and so many other things.

That's the ideal, professional answer in general -- but since the boss asked the LW *why* they were away from their desk, "I stepped away" doesn't really answer the question.

I think if the LW had said "restroom" instead of "can," it would have been work-appropriate.

LW #2: Just say thanks and smile at the other dog. Do NOT say "I didn't know they made harnesses for rats," you snot. I hope you still love your dog if he ever loses his looks.

At least he didn't say he was Pointing Percy at the Porcelain?
This actually struck me as a bit micro-managing by the boss - does she actually need to know why LW was temporarily not at desk, unless it was for a really prolonged period? I.e. was this an entirely unnecessary question to begin with?

Unless there's a lot of backstory about skiving...

I feel like someone who is willing to say "in the can" in an office setting and talks about the other GUYS rather than people he has worked with may well not be her ideal employee in other ways, but also "have you just taken your lunch" is a reasonable question if you need to know "will you be back to cover the phones if Chris takes theirs now, they've just asked me."

I do have to wonder, given the way LW talks about "the guys", if this is some kind of situation where LW is doing some kind of blue-collar work as a contractor for a very not-blue-collar company, and there's a wider culture clash here.

I had the same thought. "In the can" is not vulgar, but it is a euphemism usually employed by a more blue-collar crowd. "Restroom" or "washroom" are more typical of an office environment. Still kind of a petty thing to bring up at a performance review.

I think Miss Manners is wrong on LW1 because the manager was implicitly asking the LW to justify their absence from their work area. It's relevant information whereas Miss Manners alternatives are better for a conversation between peers or at a social event. Also - there are limited places for the LW to be so it's not an unexpected answer!

Raising it at performance review is ridiculous unless it was part of a wider pattern or the LW used a much cruder expression or gave more details than stated in the letter.

Either way, Miss Manners is an odd choice to ask!

Managers who get snippy when employees step away from their desks don't get to hide behind manners, and "excuse me" and "I was indisposed" do not answer the underlying accusation the manager was making. Miss Manners is being utterly obtuse.

re 2: what's wrong with something like "Thanks, aren't dogs great"? Sheesh.

And wtf at MM's second sentence. Also the suggestion of "Excuse me" for LW1. "You weren't at your desk, were you at lunch?" from a manager is hardly call for an excuse-me, regardless of whether it's apologetic or offended.

I've been an un-fan of Miss Manners since I first discovered her in the '90s, but I'm going to defend one little point here: to the people objecting to her suggestion of "excuse me", I suspect there's been a misunderstanding of what she meant. The question is:

Is there a better way to tell someone when you have to go or just went?

And the answer is

So many. But "Excuse me" or "I was indisposed" are the only ones suitable for polite company.

I read "excuse me" to mean how to tell someone when you have to go, and "I was indisposed" for when you have to tell someone you just went.

Agree she's way off base about "indisposed", and also, I would absolutely tell my boss "I was in the restroom" without batting an eye. If "in the can" is the natural way he refers to it (someone suggested blue collar, which is entirely possible), it's pretty much saying the same thing, there's just been a culture clash. (I *would* be taken aback if someone said "in the can" to me, because of the culture clash, but I wouldn't put it in a performance review!)

Edited 2023-07-07 07:12 (UTC)

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