agonyaunt | (no subject)

(no subject)

Dear Care and Feeding,

My brother’s new partner uses the pronouns they/them. I don’t care but my mom… geez. It’s a real sticking point with her. I wanted to understand why it bothered her so much—I mean, what’s it to her? (She’s never been a hater, and she’s usually interested in/curious about new ideas.) So I tried to talk to her about it. She was vehement in her response. She said she felt horribly uncomfortable saying “they/them” to refer to one person and that it made her feel like everything she’d been taught her whole life was wrong. She also complained about “young people” being “so needy” now and wanted to know why their self-worth is determined by what pronoun she uses. She said she knew now how her parents felt when they were so puzzled by her and her friends. She ended her tirade with, “But we never expected old people to change. How is it fair that now it seems like we’re supposed to?”

I’m starting to wonder whether resistance to change is maybe a normal part of aging. My mother definitely used to be more outgoing and open. I’d like to know how you might explain the importance of pronouns to an older generation (my mom is 63) in a way that doesn’t cause them to respond, “Can you believe young people today?!”

—Not OK, Boomer

Dear Not OK,

As a representative of that “older generation,” let me just say that resistance to change is a common problem, one that’s not limited to aging boomers. But it’s also true that the longer you live, the more years you have behind whatever ideas and beliefs you hold dear, and thus the harder it can be to dislodge them when new information arrives. (I also suspect that one thing that happens as people pass from middle age to old age is less concern about keeping up a front. In other words, your mom may not have been as open-minded as she seemed to be in years past: She just cared more about presenting herself that way.)

If you’re going to try to talk to her again about this, I think you might point out that recognizing that gender identity is not as simple and straightforward a matter as she’d been taught it was does not mean that “everything” she was taught “her whole life” is wrong. And that accepting that some of the things one was taught are not, in fact, true is a feature, not a bug, of living in the world for over six decades. Discoveries are made. Insight is gained. We move forward. The things your mom—and I (I’m older than she is!)—learned as children, or simply absorbed from the culture around us, weren’t (necessarily) wrong because the adults who imparted them to us were (necessarily) evil: In some cases, they were doing the best they could with the information they had available. Hanging on for dear life to what we thought was true is counterproductive. It tends to make us smaller, meaner, and stuck.

But even if your mom can’t unstick herself—even if she can’t open up to learning new things; even if she can’t understand what a nonbinary gender identity is; even if she remains baffled by the very idea of gender identity—that doesn’t mean she’s entitled to misgender your brother’s partner, whose sense of self-worth is not “determined by what pronoun she uses” no more than her self-worth is determined by the way others refer to her. It’s just good manners—respectful, appropriate, civilized—to address people the way they want to be addressed. In other words, she doesn’t have to understand it in order to interact respectfully with her son’s partner or other nonbinary folks (no more than she has to understand how a combustion engine works in order to drive a car).

And by the way, expecting old people to change is a good thing (indeed, a respectful thing!), not a bad one. We are not an inferior category of human beings, incapable of being educated, widening our horizons, or growth. That her (my) generation felt that way about their elders is a pity, not something to be nostalgic about.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2023/06/family-gift-wishlist-care-and-feeding-advice.html

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Letters which suggest that people past an arbitrary age cannot be wholly held responsible for their archaic views just... they just infuriate me.

Like, I have a lot of complaints about my recently deceased mother. Like, a lot. And by the end of her life, she was sufficiently scared that her cognition was declining that she was actively resistant to doing new things where her slower pace of learning might be revealed. (I'm not sure how much her cognition was *actually* declining, but I'm certain she was terrified that we'd all figure out her little secret if given half a chance. That woman was not subtle.)

Nevertheless, when her older grandchild came out as nonbinary, she threw herself into using the new and correct pronoun without complaint or criticism. Did she make mistakes sometimes? Yes! It turns out to be surprisingly difficult to switch what pronouns you use for a person! But she didn't act like she just couldn't help it and shouldn't be expected to!

And she was ten years older than LW's mom, so, you know, my sympathy here is very limited. If my mother could manage it, with her raft of personal issues that made her rather difficult to get along with a times, I'm sure other, younger, probably much nicer people can manage it too.

That said, having dealt with my mother's tirades, I'm half tempted to say that LW ought to have responded to their mom's tirade with "Well, everything you were taught *was* wrong, and also, haven't you ever heard that life's not fair? Suck it up already!" but since I know that approach doesn't actually work I'll suggest something else I've found does work when dealing with difficult people:

Pick a line, stick with it, without variance. In LW's mother's case, for this particular issue, I'd suggest something like "It's just good manners". If she starts to make a fuss or complain or be petulant, say nothing but "It's just good manners" and refuse to discuss the matter further. If she misgenders Partner, give a correction immediately and promptly, every time. And if she complaints, it's back to "It's just good manners."

LW cannot talk their mom into changing her mind, but through stubborn refusal to either engage with her or to put up with her nonsense, LW might be able to maneuver her into changing her behavior, and in the end, that's what she needs to do.

Also, I was so annoyed at the framing here I didn't read the response!

Ooh, I like the "It's just good manners" thought! That's less work and effort that my own suggestion (which was "time to parent the parent").

In LW's mother's case, for this particular issue, I'd suggest something like "It's just good manners"

That line works so well on so many older ladies.

So I tried to talk to her about it. She was vehement in her response. She said she felt horribly uncomfortable saying “they/them” to refer to one person and that it made her feel like everything she’d been taught her whole life was wrong.

Language is a living, evolving thing. She was taught the language that was correct at the time. It has since evolved.

She ended her tirade with, “But we never expected old people to change. How is it fair that now it seems like we’re supposed to?”
Your mom was born in 1959. It is disingenuous for her to claim that no one expected old people to change. Does she still refer to black people "Negros" or "coloreds"? This is the same concept - language changed and evolved.

It's nice that her generation was content to allow their elders to wildly disrespect others because "making the empathic & compassionate choice is hard, and grandpa worked all his life - he's retired now and he wants to make the easy choice to remain selfish," but our generation is not content with this selfish line of garbage.

I assure you, during her 63 years of life, your mom has done hard things. She can do hard things. If she does not want to, that is entirely her choice. It's pretty much the same parenting line we pull to kids now: "You absolutely have the choice to be selfish. If you make the choice to not even try, the consequences look like losing contact with your son and any potential grandkids he may have, but you'll have the comfort of not having to change or do any work. You also have the choice to be empathic and compassionate. The consequences of that choice is you are a little uncomfortable, but you are still welcome and able to be involved in your son's life."

Edit to Add: Something I learned from FootlessJo: "You don't have to understand someone/something to choose to respect them." The same thing applies here, too.s

Edited 2023-06-29 22:05 (UTC)

Seems to me our generation (I am not that much younger than 63) had to adjust to way more sweeping changes than they/them pronouns. And the idea that we didn't expect old people to change is nonsense. We were resigned to the fact that a number of them wouldn't, but that's different.

"to an older generation (my mom is 63)"

"to an older generation (my mom is 63)"

LW, you are cutting your mother a pass she absolutely does not deserve. Your mother was ten when Queen formed; she was nine during Stonewall. She was too young to be excited by Ziggy Stardust, but just the right age for Rocky Horror. She was a young woman in the 1980s, when every single sexually active person (whether queer, allied, or, in most cases, homophobic) had to be aware of sexuality and gender issues. When she was 27, there was a trans-positive episode of an extremely normie popular American sitcom.

Whether your mother was a fan or foe or indifferent, LW, she came of age in a time when there was unprecedented radicalism around sexuality and gender. This is not the first time she's had to think about this. This is just the first time it's been in her own family.

Also, "But we never expected old people to change"??????? She was born in 1960, LW. I beg you to look up the 1960s in wikipedia, LW, and then call your mother on this outrageous bullshit.

Edited 2023-06-30 03:42 (UTC)

LW, my (cis male) partner just turned 64.

He socialises with five trans people and manages to get their pronouns right 99% of the time,

although he occasionally messes up the pronouns for the trans woman who he has known since she was a newborn baby, in which case he apologises and corrects himself.

63 is NOT OLD ENOUGH TO BE AN EXCUSE.

Yeah, that was my thought. The mom is using her age as an excuse because she's bigoted and doesn't want to think about or do things that are making her uncomfortable.

She was too young to be excited by Ziggy Stardust, but just the right age for Rocky Horror.

Eh eh eh. I am 63, and I was a big fan of David Bowie and Ziggy Stardust (and glam in general). And Queen may have formed in 1970, but their breakthrough single (at least in the Netherlands) was Killer Queen from 1974.

Okay, it's probably unfair to say, I am ten years older than Mom and I try to keep up with this, because I have been in the history of gender and sexuality community for decades, which gives one a good deal of perspective on changing ideas and usages. But yeah, this way of speaking about older people who grew up during the 60s and 70s as if they Came Out under Queen Victoria and their delicate sensibilities are understandable and should be pandered to is both weird and condescending.

She said she felt horribly uncomfortable saying “they/them” to refer to one person and that it made her feel like everything she’d been taught her whole life was wrong.

Dear LW Mom,

You were, in fact, taught about single-person they/them as a kid! It’s been around since hundreds of years before you were born (Shakespeare and Chaucer were two of the many authors to use it) and you would have been taught the convention to use it for a single person when you’re unsure of their gender. “Oh, a customer left their keys here; I hope they come back to get their keys.”

So it wasn’t that what you were taught was wrong, it’s just that you need to adapt what you already know a little: “they/them” is not solely for unknown gender, but also for those whose genders are known but don’t fit into men/boys or women/girls. You’ll be fine.

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