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Skewed priorities all over this letter
Dear Annie: I don't know where to start. It has been six years since our youngest daughter, "Emily," has been close to us.
The problem started when our oldest daughter and her cousin were in the kitchen talking about Emily when Emily walked by. She obviously was concerned that they were talking about her. We were just getting ready to eat our holiday meal, and I asked where Emily was, and they said she had left.
I called her to ask why, and she said her sister and cousin were staring at her and talking. Mind you, they were all in their 40s.
After I talked to Emily, my husband and son-in-law asked why she left. I told them, and my son-in-law said repeatedly that she needed help. My husband couldn't take any more, so he said I'm not going to sit here and listen to you talk about my daughter, and he got up and left.
I called Emily and said that I wanted to talk to her later, and she said OK. But that was the last time I have talked to her. I would love to talk to her every night. I have a grandson who I haven't seen either. We did everything for them, including helping to pay for his college. He now works in engineering. I miss him so much. I cry every day. My youngest daughter was diagnosed with PTSD and schizophrenia. She doesn't believe it and won't take the medications.
My husband and I are going nuts. We don't know what to do. We all own the house and want to sell it, and she won't sign the papers. I'm afraid I will never talk to my daughter or grandson again. We were so close. -- Confused Parents
Dear Confused Parents: The best thing to do is be patient -- and gently encourage her to take her meds. You might need a doctor's help with this. Schizophrenics who refuse to believe their doctor or take their medication become almost impossible to have a close relationship with.
Your daughter's feelings were hurt because her sister and cousin were talking about her, probably not in a flattering way. That hurts at any age. But you are correct that, as adults, she should have talked with her sister and cousin about why they felt the need to have a conversation about her. Instead, she reverted to acting like a little girl and ran away from the situation. It is all understandable. She also is using her grandson in this as well. These are all very immature actions, but hopefully if you continue to acknowledge her hurt feelings and try and speak to your other daughter about apologizing, maybe they will all come around.
The most important issue, however, is her denial of the doctor's diagnosis and refusal to take any medications. Ask that doctor for help.
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/dearannie/s-2834246
The problem started when our oldest daughter and her cousin were in the kitchen talking about Emily when Emily walked by. She obviously was concerned that they were talking about her. We were just getting ready to eat our holiday meal, and I asked where Emily was, and they said she had left.
I called her to ask why, and she said her sister and cousin were staring at her and talking. Mind you, they were all in their 40s.
After I talked to Emily, my husband and son-in-law asked why she left. I told them, and my son-in-law said repeatedly that she needed help. My husband couldn't take any more, so he said I'm not going to sit here and listen to you talk about my daughter, and he got up and left.
I called Emily and said that I wanted to talk to her later, and she said OK. But that was the last time I have talked to her. I would love to talk to her every night. I have a grandson who I haven't seen either. We did everything for them, including helping to pay for his college. He now works in engineering. I miss him so much. I cry every day. My youngest daughter was diagnosed with PTSD and schizophrenia. She doesn't believe it and won't take the medications.
My husband and I are going nuts. We don't know what to do. We all own the house and want to sell it, and she won't sign the papers. I'm afraid I will never talk to my daughter or grandson again. We were so close. -- Confused Parents
Dear Confused Parents: The best thing to do is be patient -- and gently encourage her to take her meds. You might need a doctor's help with this. Schizophrenics who refuse to believe their doctor or take their medication become almost impossible to have a close relationship with.
Your daughter's feelings were hurt because her sister and cousin were talking about her, probably not in a flattering way. That hurts at any age. But you are correct that, as adults, she should have talked with her sister and cousin about why they felt the need to have a conversation about her. Instead, she reverted to acting like a little girl and ran away from the situation. It is all understandable. She also is using her grandson in this as well. These are all very immature actions, but hopefully if you continue to acknowledge her hurt feelings and try and speak to your other daughter about apologizing, maybe they will all come around.
The most important issue, however, is her denial of the doctor's diagnosis and refusal to take any medications. Ask that doctor for help.
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/dearannie/s-2834246
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The problem started when our oldest daughter and her cousin were in the kitchen talking about Emily when Emily walked by. She obviously was concerned that they were talking about her. We were just getting ready to eat our holiday meal, and I asked where Emily was, and they said she had left.
I called her to ask why, and she said her sister and cousin were staring at her and talking. Mind you, they were all in their 40s.
The implication I'm picking up on here is that Emily is behaving immaturely, or perhaps that she should not have thought they were talking about her because they're adults.
After I talked to Emily, my husband and son-in-law asked why she left. I told them, and my son-in-law said repeatedly that she needed help. My husband couldn't take any more, so he said I'm not going to sit here and listen to you talk about my daughter, and he got up and left.
So they definitely were talking about her. Also, this entire family communicates badly and possibly rudely.
I called Emily and said that I wanted to talk to her later, and she said OK. But that was the last time I have talked to her. I would love to talk to her every night. I have a grandson who I haven't seen either. We did everything for them, including helping to pay for his college. He now works in engineering. I miss him so much. I cry every day.
If you're not reading too closely you'll think that Grandson is in Emily's care and that she's been restricting contact. But he's an adult, and makes his own adult choices. We don't know why he, as an adult, has chosen not to be in contact with his grandparents but I'm reasonably certain it's not his mother's fault.
My youngest daughter was diagnosed with PTSD and schizophrenia.
Talk about burying the fucking lede! Emily has two very serious mental illnesses! LW is here wringing her hands about how sad she is that her busy engineer grandson won't pick up the phone, meanwhile, his mother has schizophrenia and PTSD!
And let's go back up to the very first point - Emily was upset because she thought her family was gossiping about her to her face, and then the family members all called her crazy behind her back. Either they were talking about her, and it's very common for people to meanspiritedly talk about mentally ill people like they're not even there, or, well, paranoia is a known symptom of schizophrenia. But LW's commentary on this boils down to "they're all adults".
She doesn't believe it and won't take the medications.
LW, you don't talk to your daughter. You don't talk to her son. Who is telling you that she's not taking her medications? Who is telling you that the reason is because she doesn't believe in her diagnoses?
I mean, it's possible she's not taking her medications for whatever reason, and that reason may include a disbelief that she's ill. Or it may be because those medications can make you feel like crap. I mean, lots of reasons! But seriously, where is LW getting this information?
My husband and I are going nuts. We don't know what to do. We all own the house and want to sell it, and she won't sign the papers. I'm afraid I will never talk to my daughter or grandson again. We were so close.
Which is it? You're upset because you can't sell the house, or you're upset because you can't talk to your daughter?
You know, I'd have said I was deeply worried about my daughter, and left Grandson out of it entirely. Grandson does not matter to this narrative. But as near as I can tell, LW just cares about her own feelings.
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That's not behaving like a "little girl" or "running away." That's setting healthy boundaries.
Obviously, it's not ideal that she's dealing with mental-health issues unmedicated (although, if you haven't talked in six years, how does the LW know?), but it sounds like getting away from sister/cousin/son-in-law was a wise move on Emily's part.
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Thank you! This to the zillionth power! It's not "acting like a little girl"--- it's acting like a grown-ass adult who is no longer trapped into living in a family of origin with people who apparently don't think well of her and who has the agency and the right to remove herself from an unpleasant situation and to remove people who don't think well of her from her life.
And. Okay. The whole issue of Emily's mental health (and as you and other commenters have said, how does LW know anything about how Emily's mental health treatment is going?) is the much bigger can of worms, but... really, it may in fact just be better for Emily's mental health not to be involved with her family at this point.
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It can't be, for example, that you all gossip about how crazy she is, or whatever it was her sister and cousin were saying that drove her to leave a family gathering right then and there. You don't want to be explicit about their words and just gliiiide right past that. I wonder why?
You haven't talked to her for years, apparently, but you speak very confidently about her diagnoses and treatments. Are you perhaps stalking someone who has tried to eject you from controlling her medical care (you were SO CLOSE, hmm?), reading social media or interrogating mutual acquaintances to gather info with which to make the case that you should STILL be in control of her medical care? You're not getting this info from her, if she's not talking to you. You're not privy to her discussions with doctors or therapists, presumably, unless someone is seriously violating medical confidentiality. But you're so SURE she must be mismanaging her life and health, because she's not talking to you, and that's so crazy, right?
Your adult grandson is also setting boundaries around contact with you. Gee, I wonder if that has something to do with how much you don't respect Emily's boundaries, or potentially things you've done to him specifically! You just don't know. Anything either of them has said to you, you've automatically dismissed as not the REAL reason. Which remains a mystery. 🙄
The advice is completely out of line. No, LW does not have any right to talk to doctors on behalf of a family member who has gone no-contact. Emily's medical treatment is none of LW's business. (Also, going no-contact with terrible family is far from "immature" - sometimes it's the most mature possible response!)
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My experience of people who sob "why can't we all be togetherrrr" is that they are the people we don't want to be together with.
Emily's doctor will not talk to LW about another patient and Annie is treating Emily as LW does, an incompetent, sullen teenager, to even suggest it.
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This letter is a disjointed mishmash of topics. Is the problem the estrangement with a middle-aged daughter, the estrangement with an adult grandson, the letter writer's oddly detailed knowledge of the estranged daughter's current medical issues, or how difficult it is to sell a house with multiple owners?
Also, Annie's advice is deeply inappropriate. Pestering Emily's doctor is a terrible idea on every level.
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I cosigned another commenter's remarks to that effect above, but wanted to add that also, if Emily had stuck around and confronted sister and cousin about their remarks, what do you want to bet that the LW would have been writing about Emily "causing drama" or "making a scene" because she did engage? Emily chose the least disruptive way of dealing with an unpleasant situation while not forcing herself to be subject to other people's disparagement or worse.
And, yeah, this letter is all over the place in terms of topics and incredibly disjointed, to the point that when LW finally got around to mentioning Emily's specific diagnosis, I had a knee-jerk reaction of, "Does LW know that schizophrenia has been known to have a heritable component in at least some cases and has LW had their own mental health evaluated lately, or ever?" (I'm neither being flippant nor trying to internet diagnose; I just thought LW's style in a letter that's intended for public consumption by a whole bunch of random internet strangers was... as you say, disjointed. It seems more like a stream-of-consciousness private journal, but when that's what you think is ready for prime time... honestly, at least processing some of this whole family dynamic with a qualified mental health professional sounds like a good idea for LW, regardless of any mental health issues that might have a heritable component!)
Also, Grandson is an adult. Grandson can mediate his own contacts with his extended family.
And cosigning how deeply inappropriate Annie's advice is as well. Ugh, no, none of this is a good idea.
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To which the answer is, "Well, you could actually try and talk to her, and maybe apologize on behalf of the rest of the family. That might be a start."
Now, if indeed she has been diagnosed as schizophrenic and she isn't taking her meds, that may well be a (quite common) problem, which may well have bearing on a) the precipitating events of this schism, and b) any possible solution to it. But it would still be helpful to apologize first.
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2) Has Annie ever heard of HIPAA??
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