A letter and a response

[conuly]

1. Dear Annie: My wife and I have been together for over 13 years. She is a great person who has issues with bipolar disorder. I’ve gotten used to it, and with things being off from time to time, but I’m not sure how to handle this last situation.

I knew my work jeans were really getting worn, but even though they had holes worn in the legs, they were still usable and covered everything that is not supposed to be seen in public. But my wife took it upon herself to start buying me new jeans -- in fact, three new pairs of jeans. I appreciate what she is doing for me, but this evening we had a blowup.

I was at home, and if I’m home, I take her to work and go pick her up when she gets off. When it was getting close to the time for me to pick her up, I took a quick shower and planned to put on my old jeans. All I could find in the laundry were the three new pairs of jeans. I found out later that she had thrown out all my old work jeans.

When I picked her up, I asked what she had done with my work pants, and she immediately got hostile and started yelling and telling me that I didn’t have anything that was worth wearing in my old work pants and I should have more respect for myself than to wear them.

She said I should not wear clothes with holes in them, and she refused to calm down and kept trying to keep the argument going. I had to just get in my truck and leave the house for a while, and then she called me and said she thought I needed to come back home. When I got there, she started yelling all over again. I told her she had no reason to be so loud.

Now, I don’t know if her bipolar disorder has something to do with her thinking that if you are worried about someone you should yell at them. I’m running out of ways to deal with the situation and her changing moods. Can you give me any advice? I do love my wife dearly and don’t want to let this ruin our relationship. -- Trying to Understand

Dear Trying to Understand: First off, it’s not about the pants. It’s about your wife’s behavior currently, and it sounds like throwing away your favorite pants was your tipping point. The best thing to do is speak with your wife and ask her if she is OK. How is her treatment program working with her diagnosis? Is she taking her medications and going to therapy?

You might also consider seeing a therapist who specializes in bipolar disorder to help you better understand the disease. I admire how much you love your wife and are really trying to help her.

https://www.syracuse.com/advice/2023/05/dear-annie-wife-is-struggling-with-bipolar-disorder-and-im-at-my-wits-end.html

*****

2. Dear Annie: I'm writing in reference to the man who is convinced his wife threw his old jeans out and yelled at him because she has bipolar disorder. It isn't her bipolar disorder causing her to behave that way; it's you!

I don't have bipolar disorder, and yet my husband drove me to react the same way. He wears nice clothes to his office and then comes home and puts rags on for me to look at all night. He would have nice jeans and shirts in his closet, but instead he ate dinner and watched TV dressed like he was going to change his oil or do some painting. He would also try to go places with me dressed like that.

"I'm not going to see anyone I know," he would say, and I replied, "I have to look at you! Thanks a lot for trying to look nice for me."

The biggest frustration is that I have always tried to look nice for him.

I regularly took my husband's raggedy clothes and cut them up to make cleaning rags from them. I did this so he would not continue to wear them. He was an absolute embarrassment. One day, he wanted to go somewhere, and I went to get in the car with my old painting jeans and sweatshirt, no makeup, hair hanging in my eyes. He said, "Aren't you going to change?" I said, "No, I'm not going to see anyone I know." -- Fed-Up Wife

Dear Fed Up: On the one hand, you could look at it how flattering it is that your husband feels so comfortable with you that he doesn't have to impress you. Instead, it sounds more like he is taking you for granted and you are tired of it. Marriage takes work, and part of that work is not taking the other for granted. Get curious about why he doesn't feel the need to dress nice in front of you.

https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/dearannie/s-2833214

Comments

[conuly]

Not much to say about LW1, but LW2 - honey, just get a divorce. You're not happy in this marriage. I may not have much to say about your priorities, but they're your priorities and right now you are unhappy, so - divorce him!

And in the meantime, stop cutting up your husband's clothes. You think he's disrespecting you, but that doesn't make it okay to disrespect him in return. Just get a divorce.

[ethelmay]

I am reminded of Mr. Bronte cutting the sleeves off his wife's gown. Totally controlling behavior.

If you have the kind of job where jeans with holes are fine (and not a safety hazard), it is silly to throw them out. (Plus holey jeans are actually fashionable off and on. It seems to me entirely different to wear jeans with a hole in the knee than to wear khakis with a hole in the knee.)

I can absolutely see asking someone to dress up a little to go out for dinner, or to stop wearing one specific thing you don't like, but when you're trying to change how someone dresses every single day, that gets into the realm of choices that are theirs to make, and if you really loathe so many of the choices they make, well, maybe you ought to think about whether you actually like them that much.

[green_grrl]

Both of these husbands have been told time and again what would be something their wife appreciates. And they both refuse to do that. The wife gets more insistent, please can you just do this one thing? The wife snaps. The husband is all, why is she mad? You know, because she hasn’t explained thirteen million times.

If the husband wants to say, “these new jeans are uncomfortable,” or, “I’d prefer to wear a utilikilt,” or something, that’s an answer. But to just not say anything and continue to do something that makes your wife actively unhappy?

I agree that throwing away or cutting up the husband’s clothes is wrong, but it blows my mind that they seem to not understand why it happened.

[ysobel]

Both of these husbands have been told time and again what would be something their wife appreciates. And they both refuse to do that.

Except ... that works for, like, what to do about her birthday, but at what point does it go too far? Does her preference automatically override his? Does her preference override his comfort? If the wife wanted her husband to only get around by unicycle, would it be fair to expect him to do that? Can she demand he dye his hair? Can *he* insist *she* wear a bra even while lounging around at home?

I don't think they're confused about *what* the issue is, only why it's so much of an issue. Why holey jeans bother LW1's wife that much, for example. What LW2 means by "rags". I've heard of people wearing jeans that are more hole than jean, and I've heard of people (usually guys) clinging to dirty stinky clothes way past the point of sense, but I've also heard of people complaining about a 1-inch rip over the knee being "unsightly", or disapproving of jeans at all.

With LW2 the "I'm not going to see anyone I know" line is bad, but the way she phrases things bugs me too -- he doesn't put on different clothes "for her to look at", he puts them on for comfort. (The end result, what she sees all night, is the same, but I doubt he's deliberately wearing ugly to spite her... or at least didn't start that way.) I'm curious what the "rags" and "nice clothes" are; I don't know if she's trying to ask for nice-looking casual or if she expects him to wear work dress at home.

Anyway I think it's more complicated than just husband knowing what the wife wants.

[shirou]

Oh man, my wife and I are both thrilled to put on comfy clothes at the end of the day. Glad we get to do it together.

I am trying to imagine the responses had the genders been reversed. "My husband cut up my clothes and yelled at me because I don't dress up enough for him." I'm guessing the man is going to be at fault regardless of which role he plays.

[cereta]

It sounds like they aren't just wearing them at home, though. They wear them out of the house, and second husband in particular seems not to care even to look clean and tidy if he's not seeing anyone he knows.

General comment not directed at you: I'm going to throw a gendered angle into this. Even in this day and age, wives are often judged by their husbands' appearance. It's not as common as it used to be, but it's still there. It's also true that men are allowed to get away with looking like slobs in ways that women are not.* So I could see that adding to the resentment green_grrl talks about.

*I would balance that against the fact that we can wear clothes that feel like pajamas in situations where men have to wear suits ;). If it's a financial strain that we have to have a wider variety of clothing (men can wear the same outfit to work and to a fancy wedding, where women mostly can't), we also have more tiers of formality and more variety.

[nineveh_uk]

Plus there is a difference between comfy and stained rags. If husband likes to wear soft, comfortable clothes at home, he can buy some that are clean and intact, not old jeans full of holes. He could even buy comfortable smarter clothes to wear when going out.

[cereta]

You know, I'm reminded of a fellow TA I shared an office with years ago. He always wore shorts and t-shirts that were worn to the point of having holes at the hems, almost always had stains on them, etc. His hair was always matted - not in dreads or anything, just tangled and matted, as was his long beard. And he bitched on a weekly basis about both students and other teachers not taking him seriously, not listening to him in class, etc.* And look: I taught in shorts all the time. But they were clean, and didn't have holes in them.** You may think we shouldn't be judged by our appearances, but like it or not, how we physically present ourselves does convey things to other people.

*He was also a shitty teacher, I should add.
**I don't wear stuff that's actively uncomfortable, and I live in jersey knit, but I figure, if students have to look at me for 50 minutes, I might as well look nice.

[fox]

“Not seeing anyone he knows” = his wife doesn’t count as anyone he knows. The entire rest of the second letter is beside the point.

[minoanmiss]

Yeah, I'm with you on this. Language like "You should respect yourself more than ---" is full of SO MANY ASSUMPTIONS, and LW #2 especially seems to be taking her husband's clothing choices personally. Did he ask her to "look nice for him" or was this an idea she has never discussed with him, or something in between? And *cutting up someone's clothes* is a horrible thing to do. I don't agree with these wives.

[sathari]

Joining the party/chorus here! Cosigning what you said on all counts.

If LW #1 is, as it sounds like, in a hands-on field where his work clothes see a lot of wear and tear, then a) it's likely that it's also important that he have easy range of motion in them (new jeans can be horribly stiff and abrasive until they're very well broken in, and even if they're not, if LW1 is in any kind of job like construction where he's moving around doing things where he can get hurt, just having clothes that don't move the way that he expects them to and don't have the freedom of movement he expects could be hazardous!) and b) it makes perfectly good sense not to waste money replacing clothing the moment it gets stained and/or torn, because that's probably going to happen the first time he wears those clothes on a job! As long as it's within "industry norms" for appropriate work dress, it's not a problem. And... like, I don't know in what ways or to what extent the shape of LW1's wife's reaction to his clothing has to do with her bipolar disorder, so I'm just leaving that one there. I mean, I think the whole situation has escalated and there may indeed be some underlying bipolar-related issues there that need some different management tactics. But... ugh, throwing away your partner's clothes without their knowledge or consent is no.

The second wife... oh, dear FSM. Okay, I'll start off by granting that I agree with Wife #2 that when they are going out together both of them need to dress for the venue/environment, or Husband needs to stay home. But as far as the around-the-house stuff... *waves hands*. Ugh, no, home should be a place where you can wear clothes that are comfortable without regard to social costuming rules, where you get to be offstage for a while! Ugh, ugh, ugh. And, seriously, if this is a parity issue, why don't you stop "tr[ying] to look nice for him" around the house and just wear comfy things that you love for a while. If there's a double standard on his side (where he takes for granted that you should effectively costume yourself for him but the reverse is not true), this should bring it out into the open. If, on the other hand, your hubs is like shirou and is (IMO, sensibly) happy in a marriage where home is a place for everyone to be in their comfy unbest regardless of gender, that will come out too. But seriously, if the whole "performative dressing up at home" thing is an issue for you, then you now know what to ask your husband to do for your birthday/anniversary/Valentine's Day/other romantic holidays for the foreseeable future.

(Also, the second wife talking about wanting her husband to dress up for dinner with her all of a sudden reminded me of Downton Abbey, and specifically the old couple in the final season who were still observing all the old forms of dressing for dinner and sitting to a formal meal and so forth and I just started giggling.)

[sathari]

(Replying to myself instead of editing my first comment so that minoanmiss doesn't get comment-notification spam!)

If LW1's wife has an issue with what he's wearing to pick her up at her place of work, that's one thing and a potentially legit complaint (people being judged in their own professional settings by a spouse's conduct or attire in same is totally A Thing), but he sounds like he would probably be okay with having an outfit or two that he wears to pick his wife up at her workplace if she leaves the clothes he needs for his work alone. And the fact that this turned into a blowup about which they couldn't communicate might well have a bipolar-disorder-management component, but the columnist's "talk to a specialist" advice would help with that too.

[melannen]

Yeah, cutting up or throwing out someone's possessions without their permission (and yelling at them for being unreasonable if they object!) is an abuse red flag! It doesn't matter how dirty or ripped their things are, that's not OK.

LW 1's wife's behavior may be affected by their mental illness and it's good that he's trying to be understanding of that, but it doesn't make it an Ok thing to do. LW 2's husband may also be an awful person, but she needs to just. stop.

[castiron]

Spouse wears a lot of t-shirts with holes in them, sometimes out of the house. I figure, Spouse is an adult who can decide when it's time to buy new shirts, and if we're going somewhere together, Spouse will listen if I say "hey, can you change into a shirt that doesn't have a three-inch hole in the armpit?"

[feast_of_regrets]

I'm just going to sit over here alone and be in charge of my own clothes. I kind of think that's how all adults who are abled and moneyed enough to be so should operate, and spouses who interfere with what their adult partners are wearing are out of bounds. If you want them to dress up more than that's something you should attack with words and without scissors. (Yes, even if they get stubborn about it.)