agonyaunt | (no subject)

This letter is a response to this one: https://www.adn.com/alaska-life/advice/2023/02/02/dear-annie-struggling-to-rebuild-family-after-ugly-divorce/

Dear Annie: "Still Sad's" story is almost my story. I didn't know I was in an abusive marriage until I got out of it. That means our two children grew up in a home where they saw and heard things that shouldn't have been seen and, essentially, had traumatized childhoods. Materialistically, they had everything. The last thing in the world I thought would happen after the divorce was my children would divorce me. I thought I was integral in their lives.

At first, I was confused by the estrangements. They were carrying on close relationships with their father, the wife-beater and attempted murderer. I said nothing about him to them. Then, years rolled by. I had to learn to live without them in my life. One of them actually lived two miles from me; the others would visit and have holidays with each other, without me. My only daughter told me I was not invited to her wedding, a lavish affair with friends and family flying in from all over the country. She had two babies without so much as an announcement.

It's true, I had a part in it all, we always do, but it doesn't mean I was a bad person. It's hard to even know what they attributed as my part. I continued to send them birthday and Christmas cards. After 10 years of silence, my son contacted me. He'd seen some light, and I welcomed him back with open arms. Four years later, he was dead from fentanyl. He never did the work he needed to do from his childhood issues.

Recently, after not talking to or seeing my daughter for 12 years, we got together, so I got to meet my grandchildren. She gave me a reason that has no merit and knocked my socks off -- but it's what she tells herself to justify her behavior.

I can't control any of it. I am loved and respected by my friends and peers. It has to be enough. I've had to learn to not expect anything I imagined my life would look like and create something different. I suggest that "Still Sad" find information on estranged parents and children. She should read Dr. Joshua Coleman's work or Sheri McGregor's "Done With the Crying." "Still Sad," you are not alone. It is much more common than one would think. -- Sad but Still Living

Dear Sad but Still Living: Firstly, I am so sorry for the abuse you suffered in your marriage, the estrangement you suffered from your children and the grief you suffered from the loss of your son. Despite all this suffering, it sounds like you have reached a state of peace -- taking responsibility for your life while also having grace for yourself.

Whatever stories your daughter is telling herself about the past are outside of your control. Perhaps she will outgrow them, perhaps she will do the work to confront her past and move on -- but perhaps not. Focus on the beauty of having her in your life again.

Thank you for your suggestions. It sounds like they helped you cope with your estrangement, and I'm sure they will be valuable to readers in similar situations.

https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/dearannie/s-2787236

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So much to unpack here!

So, LW makes three claims against Ex - it was an abusive marriage that LW didn't recognize until after she left, Ex beat his wife (presumably LW), Ex is an attempted murderer.

I see no reason to doubt at least two of those three claims, and it's entirely possible that all three of them are objectively true. Something has to have triggered LW to leave that marriage that she didn't realize was abusive, and a near death at Ex's hands might have been what did it.

However, LW does not seem clear on her role in her kid's childhood, vaguely handwaving it away as "I had a part but I'm not a bad person". Yeah, well, her Ex says he's not a bad person too. That's meaningless.

My guess is that the kids were also abused, LW minimized this as it was happening, and then after the divorce he made an effort to fix his behavior and she continued to dismiss her part in her children's trauma. And yeah, it's shitty that the kids preferred him to her (if that's what happened) but from their perspective they were hurt too.

And she's still blaming them. She's blaming her son for dying of a drug overdose because he "never did the work". She's blaming her daughter for not speaking to her due to "a reason that has no merit" rather than wondering if, perhaps, her daughter's perspective is valid.

This whole story is obviously more complex than most estranged parents stories, because the estranged parent does not appear to have been the primary abuser - but it's also a good example of what is, sadly, the best-case scenario for a lot of those stories. The estranged parent makes up a story that exonerates them, and they sorta get a relationship back while still not understanding the situation that caused the estrangement in the first place or doing anything that could really improve the relationship.

There are also families where Parent A abuses Parent B and both parents abuse the children. DV agencies sometimes make it sound like being the victim in one's romantic relationship means one is automatically innocent of abusing the children. It's not true.

A third possibility is that he beat his wife but not his kids, she hit the kids, and while I think an argument can be made that abusing a child's parent or sibling is inherently abusive to that child it's not terribly surprising if the kids sided with the parent who didn't hit them.

Not great, because ideally there is no abuse in that family at all and, if there is, the kids are able to get away from all the abusers - but people are complicated like that.

Or that he hit his wife,

and his wife verbally/emotionally/psychologically abused the kids,

whereas the Dad didn't do anything to the kids directly.

The expression "reason that has no merit" is one honking big red flag. Honestly, I am thinking some degree of emotional abuse of the children is practically a given: it's just a question whether she also hit them, ignored their father hitting them, enabled someone else to abuse them, etc.

But it is interesting that she never actually says her ex turned her children against her, which is the accusation I would expect her to make.

The expression "reason that has no merit" is one honking big red flag

Oh, yeah, definitely - and especially after she said a little earlier "It's hard to even know what they attributed as my part". Is it hard? Because it sounds like her daughter, at least, told her what she considers "her part". She just didn't like it.

I was with her until she left her daughter's reason out of the letter.

Abuse and divorce and both together are big messy subjects, and kids have the messiest view of the whole proceedings, and they don't always make rationale decisions either. I have seen friends go through divorce and custody battles where their kids wanted nothing more than to move back in with their dads until the dads started mistreating them later on. Love is messy.

But the refusal to even offer up the daughter's reasoning for examination says to me that LW isn't really in that kind of situation. Her husband's abuse doesn't mean she is an innocent party, especially when both kids cut her off.