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This column has a whole bunch of terrible parents
https://slate.com/human-interest/2023/02/art-math-fail-care-and-feeding.html
1. My 17-year-old daughter, “Raina,” has always been our artsy kid. She likes to draw, paint, and write fiction. When she was younger, she liked to put on elaborate theater shows for us using her sister’s Barbies. On the other hand, she hates math and anything to do with what my mom, a doctor, calls “real work.” I know that math and science aren’t for everyone, but sometimes I wish that she would just try! When she was younger, she flat-out refused to do any homework after I wouldn’t help her anymore (for reasons such as: She refused to actually try to understand the material; I had other things going on; and/or she threw fits about not wanting to work). She has been checked for a number of issues, but nothing came up. She simply does not like anything that is not art-related or hard work.
My husband and I sat down with her to talk seriously about college. We are both very well-off, and can afford to send her to college. We are not trying to force her to go; she has often expressed the desire to attend university. But when I mention degree plans and careers, Raina will say that she doesn’t want to be a doctor (because medical school sounds hard), or anything like an engineer, accountant, or IT person (because she hates math). Those feelings are valid, so I tried to think of ways to help her turn her art skills into a feasible career. Raina says that she wants to be a fiction writer, but sadly, she’s not a good storyteller. This is inspired by her sister “Dinah,” who has already written three books on Wattpad that have received much praise. Dinah is an amazing storyteller, but I also dissuaded her from choosing a writing path, as it’s hard to make it as a creative writer. I talked to Raina about the implications of choosing to major in English without dissing her skills. Then she decided that she wants to be a graphic designer. Unfortunately, her art skills aren’t anything to bang a drum about, either! I firmly believe that if she majors in art or English, she will be searching for a job alongside far more talented peers and be overlooked.
I don’t want to be the mom with a kid loafing at home who doesn’t even want to attend school or get a job. How do I talk to Raina about college and encourage her to choose a major that will actually get her through life? I just don’t want her to invest time only to fail. I also think that she will spend one second doing work and hate it. Can you advise?
— Art Is Work, Too
Dear Art Is Work,
I … hardly know where to begin here. It’s pretty weird that you just refused to help Raina with her homework after a certain age, and your take on this is that she gave up. I’m not sure why you’d try to prepare her for the next phase of her education by sitting her down and telling her that she’s not good at various things, and therefore shouldn’t bother with them. There are many different paths you can take with a degree in the arts or humanities, and plenty of people major in English or art and manage to “get through life”—I don’t know if you really believe that “art is work,” let alone worth studying, but it is. The biggest issue by far is that you seem to have decided your child is lacking in both talent and motivation (because, as far as I can gather, she found math hard and got frustrated with it, which happens to a lot of people). You’re already picturing a future in which she fails miserably and refuses to go to school or get a job, even though she has told you multiple times that she wants to go to college and find a job that interests her. You’ve convinced yourself—perhaps with your mother’s help—that your daughter is a certain kind of person, one who doesn’t want to put in any effort and is destined for eventual collapse. And you say that you’re not having much success reaching her, or talking with her about her future?
I can’t tell you what Raina should major in or what she will do with her life, but guess what: You can’t (or at least shouldn’t) make those decisions for her, either. Your daughter is her own person, and her future potential is not yours to define, nor is her career yours to dictate. In an ideal scenario, you’d play an active and supportive role in discussing the future with her—you’d earnestly care about her interests, see her strengths, and be able to talk with her respectfully and encouragingly about her hopes and goals. Given your history, and the fact that you seem more concerned with what you believe Raina can’t do than what she can, it’s possible that the best you can do right now is to back off, actively listen to her more than you talk, and let her make up her own mind about her studies. Instead of imagining her failure, I encourage you to try to imagine a future in which your child actually succeeds in finding a life she wants. Keep in mind that she can change her major down the line if she wants to, and as she gets older, she will learn more about the different career paths taken by those in her field(s) of study. Even if it doesn’t directly feed into a particular professional role in the way some degrees might, that doesn’t mean she can’t or won’t find a career she likes, or that her time in college won’t help prepare her for that.
If you can’t understand Raina and won’t fully support her interests, try for the bare minimum: respecting her. You don’t want yours to be the voice in her head for the rest of her life whispering that she’s bound to fail, or isn’t good enough. When you talk with her about college and what comes after, try to speak and act as though you have some faith in her, rather than the opposite; trust that, like most other kids her age, she is still learning and growing and figuring out what she wants to do, and that she has time—and a right—to do these things. You can be a help to her, or a hindrance; it’s your choice. I think it’s hard enough to grow up and go out into the world and make weighty decisions without the burden of knowing that your parent doesn’t believe in you.
**************
2. Dear Care and Feeding,
I’m a gay man who married the love of my life last year. No one from my family was at the wedding. I didn’t even tell them about it until after. My parents responded to my coming out, aged 14, by trying to abuse me back into the closet, in ways I won’t detail here—but it involved conversion therapy, emotional abuse, and my dad saying he would kill any boyfriend I brought home. But because relationships are complicated and in many ways they were good parents (sent me to a great school, went the extra mile taking me to sports and events I enjoyed, and paid for my college expenses even after the coming out disaster), I maintained contact with them throughout college and beyond. I just never told them about any boyfriends, and sought therapy when I could get it to help me process. They never asked about my dating life, and we could have nice conversations so long as I never brought it up.
I told them I was married in a straightforward, practicality-focused way on the phone: “I’m not going to be around for Dad’s birthday because John and I are going on our honeymoon. You might have heard from [cousin on Facebook] that I got married.” My mom went silent, started crying, then hung up. I thought she’d get in touch again acting like everything was normal and we’d never spoken about it. Instead, she and my dad sent a huge check in the mail, with a card addressed to me and John, saying it was a wedding present. They’re both suddenly acting as though they want to meet him, asking about my life in a normal way. When I asked what was going on, they responded, “We’ve realized we need to move on. We don’t want to be cut out of your life.” They have not, however, apologized, and told me not to be “small” when I tentatively mentioned that I need an apology—at least!—to actually trust them again.
The thing is, I was planning on cutting them out of my life. John and I want kids, and we’ve discussed at length the impossibility of feeling safe ever having our children around my parents. The thought of them hurting my future child like they hurt me makes me physically sick. I’d resigned myself to enjoying the last dregs of our semi-nice relationship this year, before going completely no-contact. Their new behavior has thrown me for a loop. I want to believe they’ve really changed and we could have a good relationship, but I also want to never speak again and focus on the future. It feels cruel to reject them just as they’re finally trying to make amends, but so much damage has been done that I don’t think I could ever trust them to meet John, let alone our future kids. Can you please advise me on how to handle this? How can I be the bigger person while protecting myself, my husband, and our future kids? I love my parents, but the relationship hurts so much.
— 15 Years Too Late
Dear 15 Years Too Late,
Just because your parents have decided that they’re ready to “move on” doesn’t mean that you have to be, now or ever. Frankly, I don’t think they are “trying to make amends.” Making amends would, just for starters, involve taking responsibility for what they put you through, which sounds like a particularly violent form of familial homophobia, and offering you a sincere apology. What they’re trying to do is forget their past treatment of you and move forward, because it’s now convenient for them to do so, and they’re hoping that you will be willing to forgive and forget as well. I do hear that you love them, and are thankful for some of the (pretty basic, in my opinion) things they did for you, and perhaps you will ultimately decide to maintain some sort of contact with them. That’s a choice you have the right to make, if you want to. It’s not a choice you have to make.
Your parents chose to behave the way they did for all those years, and they are still making a choice not to treat you as you deserve by refusing to face or accept responsibility for the pain they’ve caused. Telling you that you’re “small” for asking them to say they’re sorry—the very least you’re owed!—is a major red flag and not the reaction of people who understand how wrong they were. Sending a check, however generous, doesn’t repair the harm done. They’re essentially telling you that what they’ve done in the past doesn’t matter, but it does. If they can’t even recognize the ways they’ve hurt you and apologize, I imagine it must feel impossible to know whether they have changed, or how to begin rebuilding broken trust.
I’m not telling you that you need to cut them off entirely, if you don’t feel certain about taking that step—it’s an enormous decision, and it’s yours to make. But I also think it’s very important to pay attention to what you’re feeling: You don’t feel safe with them, you need more time to think about how to proceed, and you aren’t ready to introduce them to John or have a closer relationship with them right now (and don’t know if you will ever be). It is neither “cruel” nor petty to want to protect yourself and your husband. And speaking of John, I think he also deserves agency and a hard veto here—if he never wants to meet or have a relationship with your parents, that’s his choice to make, especially given your father’s history of violent threats.
You mentioned going to therapy in the past; I’m not sure if you’re currently going, but given the abuse you’ve experienced and the intense gaslighting your parents are now engaging in, it might be helpful to seek out more support and another perspective on this situation. In any case, I hope you take all the time you need to talk with your husband and figure out what’s best for both of you going forward. Your parents are not owed your time, access to your spouse or future children, or an ongoing relationship with you just because they’ve suddenly decided that they’re ready. If you wind up totally estranged, or are never able to introduce them to your husband or future kids, I understand that will mean another kind of pain you don’t deserve. But if you go either of those routes, consider that you are not “rejecting” them—you are taking history into account, trying to honor your own feelings and boundaries, and thinking about what’s best for you and your family. You deserve to do all of those things. You deserve to feel safe and fully accepted and loved in the relationships you have. And if this relationship with your parents ever proves too painful for you to maintain, you have the right to walk away.
*************************
3. Dear Care and Feeding,
My mother and I have a complicated relationship. I grew up wealthy, but to say I had a dysfunctional and abusive childhood is being generous. Out of my three siblings, I’m the only one who will even have contact with her. My husband and I have a 6-year-old now. We adore being parents and adore our child. Sadly, none of our family live close by (my husband is in the military, so we don’t have any say in where we end up!), and family visits are limited to maybe two or three a year. I grew up similarly—we always lived far away from our extended family, and I remember my mom saying how hard it was “by herself with no help”—what little she did do.
Recently, she and my stepfather made the trip to visit us for our child’s birthday (I had to remind and invite them). We held it at a local venue for kids which is my son’s favorite place in town. The next day, a mom friend who was at the party called to say her children were sick as a heads up. Our son was pretty exhausted that next day too so I said I wanted to keep an eye on him for a bit before my mother and I went to do anything away from the house. I mentioned our son might be slightly under the weather and she basically flipped out. My mother is obsessed to the point of ridiculousness with COVID—and nothing can help soothe her concerns. Like most people, my husband, son and I have been quite cautious with COVID procedures. We’re all vaccinated, boostered, avoid large gatherings, and keep up-to-date on info about recent events and new strains. However, we’ve also come to accept that proactive prevention and making informed decisions is about all we can do now.
Within 30 minutes of me mentioning some kids were feeling ill, my mom announced she and my stepdad were leaving (immediately!) to drive seven hours back to their home. Without even thinking, I blurted out, “My son may be sick, so you’re just … abandoning me and your grandkid??” She replied that she couldn’t risk getting sick. I was so upset. Respectfully, but in no uncertain terms, I told her I thought she was being extremely selfish, and I couldn’t believe she was just leaving like that. All she would say is that I didn’t respect her wishes to not get ill. Eventually I ended the conversation by saying that we weren’t going to see eye to eye, so she needed to do whatever she felt was right. They left within 20 minutes, throwing all their clothes in the car and leaving like we were lepers. My mom refused to even hug or touch my son, and my stepdad didn’t say goodbye to anyone.
I feel so conflicted. I do understand that they’re older (with no risk factors, thankfully). I understand no one wants to be sick. But, like so many times in the past, I felt so uncared for. I can’t imagine leaving my son or his children sick if I were visiting them. My mom used to complain about how hard and lonely it was “on her own” (she had my dad), but did the same to me! My son asked why Grandma didn’t want to stay and see him. It broke my heart to see history repeating itself, as I remember asking those same questions about my mother as a child.
Am I in the wrong here? Should I just have accepted her wishes and not said anything? And how do I handle this in the future? I don’t know if I’m just projecting past trauma onto current events, or if I have a right to say, well, you’re not being the greatest mom and grandma right now. Maybe I just have to accept she’s not the mother and grandmother I wish she would be, and make peace with that?
— Giving Up in Georgia
P.S. After a long morning nap, our son was perfectly fine.
Dear Giving Up,
Well, being older is a risk factor, if we’re talking about COVID, and many older people have other conditions that can make it riskier for them. Your mom and/or stepdad could also be dealing with medical issues you aren’t aware of. I get that you were disappointed by their sudden departure—I would’ve been, too! But in these bizarro times, I try to understand when others are unwilling to assume the same risks I do, just as I’d want them to understand if I chose not to participate in something they were all comfortable with. It’s totally okay to feel hurt about your mother leaving the party early; I’m just not sure it’s worth arguing with her at length about her germ tolerance. If she’s really anxious about getting sick and wants to try to avoid it, that’s what she’s going to do.
I know it’s hard to parse what is your mom’s anxiety around COVID and other illnesses, and what is just her not being there for you as usual. I don’t think your reaction is really just about the party, or whether your mother’s fears are justified, but the dysfunctional and neglectful childhood you had—your “past trauma,” as you put it. It’s extra painful for you when you feel as though you can’t count on your mom. You worry about her letting your son down in the same way she let you down, and you want him to be able to depend on the people in his life, even though you couldn’t. Your feelings aren’t wrong and you can’t separate them from things like the party incident, but I do think it’s important to be aware of your history of trauma and what triggers it.
Your mother may never change. Certainly, neither of you can change what’s happened in the past. But your way of, as you say, accepting or “making peace” with these facts can look any number of ways. You can’t control her choices, you can’t erase history or turn her into someone else, but you do have the power to make some decisions in terms of managing your expectations and figuring out how you want to handle this relationship. If your mother never changes, is maintaining some kind of relationship with her still worth it to you, and if so, how often and under what terms would you want to be in contact with her? If she’s just not the mom and grandma you want her to be, do you want to accept whatever she can offer, or is that insufficient for you (and your son)? You don’t have to make all these decisions right away. But given how much hurt you’re still carrying from the past, I think it’s important for you to think about what you really want out of this very complicated relationship that is obviously still causing you a great deal of pain.
— Nicole
1. My 17-year-old daughter, “Raina,” has always been our artsy kid. She likes to draw, paint, and write fiction. When she was younger, she liked to put on elaborate theater shows for us using her sister’s Barbies. On the other hand, she hates math and anything to do with what my mom, a doctor, calls “real work.” I know that math and science aren’t for everyone, but sometimes I wish that she would just try! When she was younger, she flat-out refused to do any homework after I wouldn’t help her anymore (for reasons such as: She refused to actually try to understand the material; I had other things going on; and/or she threw fits about not wanting to work). She has been checked for a number of issues, but nothing came up. She simply does not like anything that is not art-related or hard work.
My husband and I sat down with her to talk seriously about college. We are both very well-off, and can afford to send her to college. We are not trying to force her to go; she has often expressed the desire to attend university. But when I mention degree plans and careers, Raina will say that she doesn’t want to be a doctor (because medical school sounds hard), or anything like an engineer, accountant, or IT person (because she hates math). Those feelings are valid, so I tried to think of ways to help her turn her art skills into a feasible career. Raina says that she wants to be a fiction writer, but sadly, she’s not a good storyteller. This is inspired by her sister “Dinah,” who has already written three books on Wattpad that have received much praise. Dinah is an amazing storyteller, but I also dissuaded her from choosing a writing path, as it’s hard to make it as a creative writer. I talked to Raina about the implications of choosing to major in English without dissing her skills. Then she decided that she wants to be a graphic designer. Unfortunately, her art skills aren’t anything to bang a drum about, either! I firmly believe that if she majors in art or English, she will be searching for a job alongside far more talented peers and be overlooked.
I don’t want to be the mom with a kid loafing at home who doesn’t even want to attend school or get a job. How do I talk to Raina about college and encourage her to choose a major that will actually get her through life? I just don’t want her to invest time only to fail. I also think that she will spend one second doing work and hate it. Can you advise?
— Art Is Work, Too
Dear Art Is Work,
I … hardly know where to begin here. It’s pretty weird that you just refused to help Raina with her homework after a certain age, and your take on this is that she gave up. I’m not sure why you’d try to prepare her for the next phase of her education by sitting her down and telling her that she’s not good at various things, and therefore shouldn’t bother with them. There are many different paths you can take with a degree in the arts or humanities, and plenty of people major in English or art and manage to “get through life”—I don’t know if you really believe that “art is work,” let alone worth studying, but it is. The biggest issue by far is that you seem to have decided your child is lacking in both talent and motivation (because, as far as I can gather, she found math hard and got frustrated with it, which happens to a lot of people). You’re already picturing a future in which she fails miserably and refuses to go to school or get a job, even though she has told you multiple times that she wants to go to college and find a job that interests her. You’ve convinced yourself—perhaps with your mother’s help—that your daughter is a certain kind of person, one who doesn’t want to put in any effort and is destined for eventual collapse. And you say that you’re not having much success reaching her, or talking with her about her future?
I can’t tell you what Raina should major in or what she will do with her life, but guess what: You can’t (or at least shouldn’t) make those decisions for her, either. Your daughter is her own person, and her future potential is not yours to define, nor is her career yours to dictate. In an ideal scenario, you’d play an active and supportive role in discussing the future with her—you’d earnestly care about her interests, see her strengths, and be able to talk with her respectfully and encouragingly about her hopes and goals. Given your history, and the fact that you seem more concerned with what you believe Raina can’t do than what she can, it’s possible that the best you can do right now is to back off, actively listen to her more than you talk, and let her make up her own mind about her studies. Instead of imagining her failure, I encourage you to try to imagine a future in which your child actually succeeds in finding a life she wants. Keep in mind that she can change her major down the line if she wants to, and as she gets older, she will learn more about the different career paths taken by those in her field(s) of study. Even if it doesn’t directly feed into a particular professional role in the way some degrees might, that doesn’t mean she can’t or won’t find a career she likes, or that her time in college won’t help prepare her for that.
If you can’t understand Raina and won’t fully support her interests, try for the bare minimum: respecting her. You don’t want yours to be the voice in her head for the rest of her life whispering that she’s bound to fail, or isn’t good enough. When you talk with her about college and what comes after, try to speak and act as though you have some faith in her, rather than the opposite; trust that, like most other kids her age, she is still learning and growing and figuring out what she wants to do, and that she has time—and a right—to do these things. You can be a help to her, or a hindrance; it’s your choice. I think it’s hard enough to grow up and go out into the world and make weighty decisions without the burden of knowing that your parent doesn’t believe in you.
2. Dear Care and Feeding,
I’m a gay man who married the love of my life last year. No one from my family was at the wedding. I didn’t even tell them about it until after. My parents responded to my coming out, aged 14, by trying to abuse me back into the closet, in ways I won’t detail here—but it involved conversion therapy, emotional abuse, and my dad saying he would kill any boyfriend I brought home. But because relationships are complicated and in many ways they were good parents (sent me to a great school, went the extra mile taking me to sports and events I enjoyed, and paid for my college expenses even after the coming out disaster), I maintained contact with them throughout college and beyond. I just never told them about any boyfriends, and sought therapy when I could get it to help me process. They never asked about my dating life, and we could have nice conversations so long as I never brought it up.
I told them I was married in a straightforward, practicality-focused way on the phone: “I’m not going to be around for Dad’s birthday because John and I are going on our honeymoon. You might have heard from [cousin on Facebook] that I got married.” My mom went silent, started crying, then hung up. I thought she’d get in touch again acting like everything was normal and we’d never spoken about it. Instead, she and my dad sent a huge check in the mail, with a card addressed to me and John, saying it was a wedding present. They’re both suddenly acting as though they want to meet him, asking about my life in a normal way. When I asked what was going on, they responded, “We’ve realized we need to move on. We don’t want to be cut out of your life.” They have not, however, apologized, and told me not to be “small” when I tentatively mentioned that I need an apology—at least!—to actually trust them again.
The thing is, I was planning on cutting them out of my life. John and I want kids, and we’ve discussed at length the impossibility of feeling safe ever having our children around my parents. The thought of them hurting my future child like they hurt me makes me physically sick. I’d resigned myself to enjoying the last dregs of our semi-nice relationship this year, before going completely no-contact. Their new behavior has thrown me for a loop. I want to believe they’ve really changed and we could have a good relationship, but I also want to never speak again and focus on the future. It feels cruel to reject them just as they’re finally trying to make amends, but so much damage has been done that I don’t think I could ever trust them to meet John, let alone our future kids. Can you please advise me on how to handle this? How can I be the bigger person while protecting myself, my husband, and our future kids? I love my parents, but the relationship hurts so much.
— 15 Years Too Late
Dear 15 Years Too Late,
Just because your parents have decided that they’re ready to “move on” doesn’t mean that you have to be, now or ever. Frankly, I don’t think they are “trying to make amends.” Making amends would, just for starters, involve taking responsibility for what they put you through, which sounds like a particularly violent form of familial homophobia, and offering you a sincere apology. What they’re trying to do is forget their past treatment of you and move forward, because it’s now convenient for them to do so, and they’re hoping that you will be willing to forgive and forget as well. I do hear that you love them, and are thankful for some of the (pretty basic, in my opinion) things they did for you, and perhaps you will ultimately decide to maintain some sort of contact with them. That’s a choice you have the right to make, if you want to. It’s not a choice you have to make.
Your parents chose to behave the way they did for all those years, and they are still making a choice not to treat you as you deserve by refusing to face or accept responsibility for the pain they’ve caused. Telling you that you’re “small” for asking them to say they’re sorry—the very least you’re owed!—is a major red flag and not the reaction of people who understand how wrong they were. Sending a check, however generous, doesn’t repair the harm done. They’re essentially telling you that what they’ve done in the past doesn’t matter, but it does. If they can’t even recognize the ways they’ve hurt you and apologize, I imagine it must feel impossible to know whether they have changed, or how to begin rebuilding broken trust.
I’m not telling you that you need to cut them off entirely, if you don’t feel certain about taking that step—it’s an enormous decision, and it’s yours to make. But I also think it’s very important to pay attention to what you’re feeling: You don’t feel safe with them, you need more time to think about how to proceed, and you aren’t ready to introduce them to John or have a closer relationship with them right now (and don’t know if you will ever be). It is neither “cruel” nor petty to want to protect yourself and your husband. And speaking of John, I think he also deserves agency and a hard veto here—if he never wants to meet or have a relationship with your parents, that’s his choice to make, especially given your father’s history of violent threats.
You mentioned going to therapy in the past; I’m not sure if you’re currently going, but given the abuse you’ve experienced and the intense gaslighting your parents are now engaging in, it might be helpful to seek out more support and another perspective on this situation. In any case, I hope you take all the time you need to talk with your husband and figure out what’s best for both of you going forward. Your parents are not owed your time, access to your spouse or future children, or an ongoing relationship with you just because they’ve suddenly decided that they’re ready. If you wind up totally estranged, or are never able to introduce them to your husband or future kids, I understand that will mean another kind of pain you don’t deserve. But if you go either of those routes, consider that you are not “rejecting” them—you are taking history into account, trying to honor your own feelings and boundaries, and thinking about what’s best for you and your family. You deserve to do all of those things. You deserve to feel safe and fully accepted and loved in the relationships you have. And if this relationship with your parents ever proves too painful for you to maintain, you have the right to walk away.
3. Dear Care and Feeding,
My mother and I have a complicated relationship. I grew up wealthy, but to say I had a dysfunctional and abusive childhood is being generous. Out of my three siblings, I’m the only one who will even have contact with her. My husband and I have a 6-year-old now. We adore being parents and adore our child. Sadly, none of our family live close by (my husband is in the military, so we don’t have any say in where we end up!), and family visits are limited to maybe two or three a year. I grew up similarly—we always lived far away from our extended family, and I remember my mom saying how hard it was “by herself with no help”—what little she did do.
Recently, she and my stepfather made the trip to visit us for our child’s birthday (I had to remind and invite them). We held it at a local venue for kids which is my son’s favorite place in town. The next day, a mom friend who was at the party called to say her children were sick as a heads up. Our son was pretty exhausted that next day too so I said I wanted to keep an eye on him for a bit before my mother and I went to do anything away from the house. I mentioned our son might be slightly under the weather and she basically flipped out. My mother is obsessed to the point of ridiculousness with COVID—and nothing can help soothe her concerns. Like most people, my husband, son and I have been quite cautious with COVID procedures. We’re all vaccinated, boostered, avoid large gatherings, and keep up-to-date on info about recent events and new strains. However, we’ve also come to accept that proactive prevention and making informed decisions is about all we can do now.
Within 30 minutes of me mentioning some kids were feeling ill, my mom announced she and my stepdad were leaving (immediately!) to drive seven hours back to their home. Without even thinking, I blurted out, “My son may be sick, so you’re just … abandoning me and your grandkid??” She replied that she couldn’t risk getting sick. I was so upset. Respectfully, but in no uncertain terms, I told her I thought she was being extremely selfish, and I couldn’t believe she was just leaving like that. All she would say is that I didn’t respect her wishes to not get ill. Eventually I ended the conversation by saying that we weren’t going to see eye to eye, so she needed to do whatever she felt was right. They left within 20 minutes, throwing all their clothes in the car and leaving like we were lepers. My mom refused to even hug or touch my son, and my stepdad didn’t say goodbye to anyone.
I feel so conflicted. I do understand that they’re older (with no risk factors, thankfully). I understand no one wants to be sick. But, like so many times in the past, I felt so uncared for. I can’t imagine leaving my son or his children sick if I were visiting them. My mom used to complain about how hard and lonely it was “on her own” (she had my dad), but did the same to me! My son asked why Grandma didn’t want to stay and see him. It broke my heart to see history repeating itself, as I remember asking those same questions about my mother as a child.
Am I in the wrong here? Should I just have accepted her wishes and not said anything? And how do I handle this in the future? I don’t know if I’m just projecting past trauma onto current events, or if I have a right to say, well, you’re not being the greatest mom and grandma right now. Maybe I just have to accept she’s not the mother and grandmother I wish she would be, and make peace with that?
— Giving Up in Georgia
P.S. After a long morning nap, our son was perfectly fine.
Dear Giving Up,
Well, being older is a risk factor, if we’re talking about COVID, and many older people have other conditions that can make it riskier for them. Your mom and/or stepdad could also be dealing with medical issues you aren’t aware of. I get that you were disappointed by their sudden departure—I would’ve been, too! But in these bizarro times, I try to understand when others are unwilling to assume the same risks I do, just as I’d want them to understand if I chose not to participate in something they were all comfortable with. It’s totally okay to feel hurt about your mother leaving the party early; I’m just not sure it’s worth arguing with her at length about her germ tolerance. If she’s really anxious about getting sick and wants to try to avoid it, that’s what she’s going to do.
I know it’s hard to parse what is your mom’s anxiety around COVID and other illnesses, and what is just her not being there for you as usual. I don’t think your reaction is really just about the party, or whether your mother’s fears are justified, but the dysfunctional and neglectful childhood you had—your “past trauma,” as you put it. It’s extra painful for you when you feel as though you can’t count on your mom. You worry about her letting your son down in the same way she let you down, and you want him to be able to depend on the people in his life, even though you couldn’t. Your feelings aren’t wrong and you can’t separate them from things like the party incident, but I do think it’s important to be aware of your history of trauma and what triggers it.
Your mother may never change. Certainly, neither of you can change what’s happened in the past. But your way of, as you say, accepting or “making peace” with these facts can look any number of ways. You can’t control her choices, you can’t erase history or turn her into someone else, but you do have the power to make some decisions in terms of managing your expectations and figuring out how you want to handle this relationship. If your mother never changes, is maintaining some kind of relationship with her still worth it to you, and if so, how often and under what terms would you want to be in contact with her? If she’s just not the mom and grandma you want her to be, do you want to accept whatever she can offer, or is that insufficient for you (and your son)? You don’t have to make all these decisions right away. But given how much hurt you’re still carrying from the past, I think it’s important for you to think about what you really want out of this very complicated relationship that is obviously still causing you a great deal of pain.
— Nicole
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JFC.
LW also apparently thinks that art is something you're good at or not - not something you can improve.
Words cannot express how much I dislike LW.
2. If LW is so "small" for asking for an apology - just the words "I'm sorry" - then how "small" are the parents for refusing to give it!?
LW, your parents made their bed, now let them lie in it.
3. I'm sure LW is telling the truth that their childhood was dysfunctional and abusive.
However, that's separate from the issue that it's perfectly reasonable for somebody who is covid-cautious to not want to hang around where they might get sick.
LW is not really in a position to see this, due to the aforementioned dysfunctional childhood, and probably could benefit from therapy. Right now, they're making Mom feel like the victim, and do they really want that?
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but that it's not fair to be angry at someone for fleeing possible COVID.
It would have been nice if grandparents had skyped/zoomed grandchild from a safe distance to wish them well and explain that it wasn't personal, it was health, though.
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LW2: The axe forgets; the tree remembers. Your parents want to forget how they treated you but that's not their prerogative.
LW3: A lot of people will be hard on you because Covid, but I totally agree with the advisor that this really isn't about Covid but about your mother's pattern of not being there for you. I want to hug you and have coffee with you.
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or a successful math person! My household has two english majors, a classics major, and a philosophy major. And of those 4 people 3 are programmers.
Liberal arts education is good training for many careers, as well as for life. Raina going to school for art may become a fine artist, a graphic designer, a fiction author, an accountant, a congressperson, a statistician, a chef, a barista, a receptionist, or an underemployed stoner. All of these are possible! But they will not result from the decisions a 17 year old is pressured into making.
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Veery true indeed!
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2. Congrats on the wedding!
3. There's a lot of drama in that family and not all of it is coming from LW's mom. Therapy for everyone!
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is a terrible plan. Kid's 17; she doesn't need a detailed career plan right now and if she did form one she would likely end up being disappointed because those kinds of gold-plated Careers barely exist any more.
If I were going to give AIWT advice rather than yelling at them for being controlling and ignorant and generally a terrible parent, I think I would prompt them to consider other options than hypothetical well-paid STEM career (for a young woman who hates maths, no less!) or starving artist. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Raina got enthusiastic about a career where she can use her skills to make a difference in the world; there's reams and reams of research that shows consistently that that's the big motivating factor for people of that age, not money, not prestige, but doing something that aligns with their beliefs. What does Raina care about? We don't know, because we only hear about how she hates maths and isn't very good at art. Try, y'know, asking her what she is interested in rather than focusing only on the negatives.
And since you can obviously afford it, get Raina a session with a professional career counsellor. That's someone with clout who might open your eyes to possibilities beyond your 1970s view of the world.
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#2: No, no, no, money is not love, money is not love, run run run!!!
#3: Childhood neglect doesn't make someone any less of a jerk when they subject vulnerable people to the Illness. (Also, I don't really understand why she subjected her six year old to someone she considers to be abusive? Just, really not clear what she expected to happen here.)
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Actually pretty typical for people with abusive parents. It's like they think that if Mom and Dad can get it together to be nice to the grandkids, it retroactively makes their shitty childhood less shitty.
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This, for example:
On the other hand, she hates math and anything to do with what my mom, a doctor, calls “real work.”
It is very weird to have an adult use their parent's words in this way, in this context. It feels like an editing error of some kind. Like, I, Bad Parent, am very likely to say that I don't think art is a Real Job, but I'm unlikely to say "Grandma says art isn't a Real Job", you know?
It's also bizarre to me that Dinah would have told her parents about her wattpad writing, though I guess my one kid tells me their fanfic plans all the time. :D
I do think that whether the LW is actually the parent or whether one of the daughters is, there's an asshole parent in here somewhere.
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Yes, but when they do you probably don't sit down and remind them that they're unlikely to succeed in writing as an actual career.
I do see what you're saying about the "maybe it was one of the two kids who wrote this" thing, though. It certainly would explain why LW suddenly mentioned Mommy like that.
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