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Infidelity!
1. DEAR ABBY: I have been married to my wife for a little over a year. I love her. However, right before our wedding, I met a co-worker I'll call "Alexis." We hit it off, and I consider her a close friend.
Alexis and I hooked up a few times before and after my wedding. We never discuss the encounters after they happen. After we've had a few drinks, we both say things about being together, but usually, we're just best friends. While my friends believe this is odd, it's almost a blessing that the awkward conversation doesn't happen after a night of something happening.
There have been instances when I have ditched my wife to hang out with Alexis -- not to do anything, but just to hang out with her and her mother. My wife says I spend too much time with Alexis between work and after work, but she's fun to be with. My wife is kind of a homebody. She doesn't like to go out and have a good time.
My wife doesn't trust Alexis, and while I can't blame her, I'm conflicted about what my next step should be. I love my wife, but I also love Alexis as more than a friend, and I know she feels the same. What should I do next? -- LOVES THEM BOTH
DEAR LOVES: You may love both of these women, but you are being fair to neither one. Your wife doesn't trust Alexis because she senses something is wrong -- and she's right. You and Alexis aren't buddies; you are lovers. That you have confided it to friends "who think this is odd" (in your words) means it is just a matter of time until your wife is in on the secret. Your first loyalty should be to your wife. At the very least, you owe it to her to have an honest discussion with her and figure out with her what the next steps should be.
https://www.uexpress.com/life/dearabby/2022/12/07
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2. DEAR HARRIETTE: One of my oldest friends is going through a messy separation with his wife. My friend was caught having an affair, which resulted in his wife kicking him out of the house. He asked me if he would be able to stay with me and my wife for a few weeks. I wanted to let him stay with us so badly, but my wife was opposed to the idea. I hated to leave my friend when he needed me, but I could not force my wife to get involved in something so messy when she is good friends with his wife as well. I'm worried that our friendship will never be the same. Did I betray my friend by not helping him out? -- Out of My Control
DEAR OUT OF MY CONTROL: Your friend's behavior is having negative repercussions throughout his life. Please know that this is not your fault. He is the one who cheated. He is the one who is now suffering due to his unethical behavior. Of course you wanted to throw him a lifeline. And it turned out to be too complicated for you to comply.
Something that people don't think about marriage is that it touches many more people than the two people who are married. Extended family members and friends become interconnected. When the unit breaks, that break reverberates through all of the connected people.
Tell your friend how sorry you are that you cannot rescue him. Tell him you love him and will do what you can to support him. But stand by your wife. He has to sort through his own business.
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/senseandsensitivity/s-2754616
*******************
3. Dear Amy: I have been with my husband for 23 years. It took me many years to trust him, due to his past behavior where he lied to me and was with other women. Honestly, it took me over 20 years to finally trust him, but this was a mistake. Recently, he started acting suspiciously, again.
In the past, I never looked in his phone, but this time I decided to look at his text messages. He was planning to take a single woman camping for a weekend. He’s known her for a while. She knows he is married. We had a huge fight. He said he told her that I said it was OK. What single middle-aged woman would think that any shade of this is OK?
I tried to contact her by phone and text. She never responded. I made him leave for the weekend so that I could think about our relationship. I am angry, hurt and I feel betrayed. I destroyed every card and 99 percent of my pictures of the two of us.
He says he doesn't want a divorce. He says he wants me here with him. He is refusing counseling. Any suggestions?
– Sad and Empty
Dear Sad: You seem quite focused on what your husband says, and on what he claims to want.
Given that you don’t trust him at all, you should not trust his lame explanations or dodging statements. Nor should you judge a single woman for agreeing to go camping with your married husband. Why? Because, given that he seems to be supplying the information here, there is some likelihood that she doesn’t know that he is married, or that he has told her that you two are separated or divorced.
All of your information about your husband’s behavior comes from him.
Over two decades of being with him should have taught you this: Lying liars lie. It’s what they do. Nor does your husband seem particularly interested in changing.
Take the time you need to grieve this relationship, but it is also important that you focus on what you want and need from here on out. Life is short. You have an opportunity for a fresh start. Counseling will help you to clarify your options. Go to counseling without him.
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/askamy/s-2755702?fs
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4. Dear Carolyn: When someone is nearly certain that a partner has lied to them about fidelity, and also kept an STD secret while not protecting the unknowing partner, is it okay to look at their phone to verify a communication that would prove the suspicions are true? The partner suspected of lying has a temper and (ironically) believes looking at someone’s phone is an unforgivable transgression on par with stealing or cheating.
— Anonymous
Anonymous: Why do you need to prove the fidelity lie when you already know — if I read you correctly — about the STD-related secrecy and reckless disregard, and you certainly already know about the temper, and you seem pretty confident in the irony of the offense taken at snooping, and the trust tank in this relationship is plainly down to fumes?
In other words, why do you need any newer, better or black-and-whiter reasons to relieve yourself of this person’s presence in your life?
There’s no minimum standard of misery you have to meet to “qualify” for breaking up.
There’s also this: You might not find your proof. What then? Will the absence of proof of your partner’s wrongdoing count as proof of their right-doing? Will it make you feel loved and valued? Make the STD, the temper, the irony and the fundamental distrust glow in the warm light of loving acceptance?
Sometimes things are just over and waiting for us to see that. Instead of snooping, spend some thought on what more you really need to know.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/advice/2022/12/11/carolyn-hax-snooping-proof-cheating/
Alexis and I hooked up a few times before and after my wedding. We never discuss the encounters after they happen. After we've had a few drinks, we both say things about being together, but usually, we're just best friends. While my friends believe this is odd, it's almost a blessing that the awkward conversation doesn't happen after a night of something happening.
There have been instances when I have ditched my wife to hang out with Alexis -- not to do anything, but just to hang out with her and her mother. My wife says I spend too much time with Alexis between work and after work, but she's fun to be with. My wife is kind of a homebody. She doesn't like to go out and have a good time.
My wife doesn't trust Alexis, and while I can't blame her, I'm conflicted about what my next step should be. I love my wife, but I also love Alexis as more than a friend, and I know she feels the same. What should I do next? -- LOVES THEM BOTH
DEAR LOVES: You may love both of these women, but you are being fair to neither one. Your wife doesn't trust Alexis because she senses something is wrong -- and she's right. You and Alexis aren't buddies; you are lovers. That you have confided it to friends "who think this is odd" (in your words) means it is just a matter of time until your wife is in on the secret. Your first loyalty should be to your wife. At the very least, you owe it to her to have an honest discussion with her and figure out with her what the next steps should be.
https://www.uexpress.com/life/dearabby/2022/12/07
2. DEAR HARRIETTE: One of my oldest friends is going through a messy separation with his wife. My friend was caught having an affair, which resulted in his wife kicking him out of the house. He asked me if he would be able to stay with me and my wife for a few weeks. I wanted to let him stay with us so badly, but my wife was opposed to the idea. I hated to leave my friend when he needed me, but I could not force my wife to get involved in something so messy when she is good friends with his wife as well. I'm worried that our friendship will never be the same. Did I betray my friend by not helping him out? -- Out of My Control
DEAR OUT OF MY CONTROL: Your friend's behavior is having negative repercussions throughout his life. Please know that this is not your fault. He is the one who cheated. He is the one who is now suffering due to his unethical behavior. Of course you wanted to throw him a lifeline. And it turned out to be too complicated for you to comply.
Something that people don't think about marriage is that it touches many more people than the two people who are married. Extended family members and friends become interconnected. When the unit breaks, that break reverberates through all of the connected people.
Tell your friend how sorry you are that you cannot rescue him. Tell him you love him and will do what you can to support him. But stand by your wife. He has to sort through his own business.
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/senseandsensitivity/s-2754616
3. Dear Amy: I have been with my husband for 23 years. It took me many years to trust him, due to his past behavior where he lied to me and was with other women. Honestly, it took me over 20 years to finally trust him, but this was a mistake. Recently, he started acting suspiciously, again.
In the past, I never looked in his phone, but this time I decided to look at his text messages. He was planning to take a single woman camping for a weekend. He’s known her for a while. She knows he is married. We had a huge fight. He said he told her that I said it was OK. What single middle-aged woman would think that any shade of this is OK?
I tried to contact her by phone and text. She never responded. I made him leave for the weekend so that I could think about our relationship. I am angry, hurt and I feel betrayed. I destroyed every card and 99 percent of my pictures of the two of us.
He says he doesn't want a divorce. He says he wants me here with him. He is refusing counseling. Any suggestions?
– Sad and Empty
Dear Sad: You seem quite focused on what your husband says, and on what he claims to want.
Given that you don’t trust him at all, you should not trust his lame explanations or dodging statements. Nor should you judge a single woman for agreeing to go camping with your married husband. Why? Because, given that he seems to be supplying the information here, there is some likelihood that she doesn’t know that he is married, or that he has told her that you two are separated or divorced.
All of your information about your husband’s behavior comes from him.
Over two decades of being with him should have taught you this: Lying liars lie. It’s what they do. Nor does your husband seem particularly interested in changing.
Take the time you need to grieve this relationship, but it is also important that you focus on what you want and need from here on out. Life is short. You have an opportunity for a fresh start. Counseling will help you to clarify your options. Go to counseling without him.
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/askamy/s-2755702?fs
4. Dear Carolyn: When someone is nearly certain that a partner has lied to them about fidelity, and also kept an STD secret while not protecting the unknowing partner, is it okay to look at their phone to verify a communication that would prove the suspicions are true? The partner suspected of lying has a temper and (ironically) believes looking at someone’s phone is an unforgivable transgression on par with stealing or cheating.
— Anonymous
Anonymous: Why do you need to prove the fidelity lie when you already know — if I read you correctly — about the STD-related secrecy and reckless disregard, and you certainly already know about the temper, and you seem pretty confident in the irony of the offense taken at snooping, and the trust tank in this relationship is plainly down to fumes?
In other words, why do you need any newer, better or black-and-whiter reasons to relieve yourself of this person’s presence in your life?
There’s no minimum standard of misery you have to meet to “qualify” for breaking up.
There’s also this: You might not find your proof. What then? Will the absence of proof of your partner’s wrongdoing count as proof of their right-doing? Will it make you feel loved and valued? Make the STD, the temper, the irony and the fundamental distrust glow in the warm light of loving acceptance?
Sometimes things are just over and waiting for us to see that. Instead of snooping, spend some thought on what more you really need to know.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/advice/2022/12/11/carolyn-hax-snooping-proof-cheating/
no subject
2. Harriette, for a change, is absolutely correct. LW's friend is now in a bed of his very own making. If he needs a place to stay, let his girlfriend/boyfriend put him up. Oh, wait, they're not willing to do that? Oh well. Sucks for him, I guess.
3. Quite a lot of women would think that's okay, because they have no intention of turning a camping trip into wild, passionate sexcapades.
The person at fault here is not that other woman, who may have no intention of being the Other Woman. It's LW's shitty husband who cheated on her repeatedly, and now basks in the knowledge that he's not going to suffer any real consequences for his behavior.
4. Excellent advice from Carolyn. No comments.
We need a "really?" tag
2. And I can't believe I'm saying this, listen to Harriette.
3. Call a lawyer and kick the asshole to the curb for good.
4. OMG, FFS, get out now.
Re: We need a "really?" tag
Even a stopped clock....
Re: We need a "really?" tag
[minor complaint] people like these jokers are why society doesn't trust poly people.
Re: We need a "really?" tag
Re: We need a "really?" tag
On the one hand if he knew about polyamory it might give him a better framework for what he wants, but on the other hand he would need to be honest from the start (i.e. before the marriage) and there's no guarantee either woman would be okay with the arrangement.
Re: We need a "really?" tag
Like, honestly, screw it. I'm not 100% convinced that what he wants actually is polyamory, where he might have to honestly account for his actions with two or more different people, instead of just the thrill of cheating.
Re: We need a "really?" tag
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Because, you see, you're a jerk and a cad. You should leave your wife for Alexis. Or better, she should leave you.
LW #3: I don't have an issue with going camping with friends, LW, and nor does society in general as far as I know. I *do* have an issue with him lyyyying about it. So if he doesn't want counseling, you have to decide if the 20 years of sunk cost means you don't want to leave him. Sounds like you're leaning toward maybe.
LW #4: No. There, that was easy. You can decide you don't trust your partner because you suspect STD/fidelity problems, and *that in and of itself* is sufficient reason to drop them/renegotiate the relationship. Bad behavior on their part should not engender unethical behavior on yours.
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I mean, to be fair, if she knows about his marital status (including the fact that it's definitely not an open marriage) then she certainly doesn't look good either, but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't do the same to her if he married her, and nobody deserves to be cheated on.
If you want an open marriage, be honest. If you want another form of polyamory, be honest. None of this other nonsense.
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