agonyaunt | (no subject)

Dear Prudence,

I’m struggling with what to tell my parents when they pester me about why my husband and I don’t bring our two young kids (3 and 5) to visit them more than once or twice a year. We all used to live in the same metro area, but a few months before our first child was born, my parents moved into a luxury full-service retirement facility almost four hours away. It’s so expensive we’ll be lucky if they leave enough to cremate them. And far from enjoying themselves, they do nothing but complain about the demanding and bigoted old rich folks who populate the place.

They accuse me of loving my in-laws more than them. I wouldn’t say that—but my in-laws did help us buy a lovely house with a separate suite, which they moved into when our first child was an infant, to save us the cost of a nanny. They spend quality time with our kids every day and seem genuinely interested in them as individuals. Their plan is to spend only what they need to and leave most of their money to us. (My husband is their only living child; his sister died tragically young.) This may be partly a cultural difference since I’m white and my husband is Chinese American. But we’ve already mutually decided that this is exactly how we want to behave toward our grown children and grandchildren (assuming, of course, that it doesn’t conflict with their wishes).

In contrast, it feels like my parents have decided to prioritize themselves and not invest in future generations, and that this is a continuation of a lifelong pattern. They had six kids seemingly just because they liked babies, losing interest in each of us as we grew old enough to speak our minds. They didn’t help me or my siblings with college; we had to either go into blue-collar work or wait until our mid-20s when we could qualify for loans independently, thus getting a late start in our careers. They didn’t contribute to our homes, weddings, or emergency expenses. Of all six of us, I’m the only one who even has kids, and only because I married someone better off.

So now them wanting to see my kids all the time feels like wanting to have their cake and eat it. Should I communicate this to them? Or keep my petty bitterness to myself and continue to make excuses about the long drive, even as the kids get older and less exhausting to wrangle?

—Disenchanted Daughter

Wait a minute. Why is there so much discussion of money and inheritance in a question about grandparents wanting to see their grandkids? Your children are not for sale. At least they shouldn’t be. Put yourself in their shoes: Does the amount of money your parents contributed to your college education have anything to do with how much your kids would benefit from a relationship with them? Are you really thinking of denying them this special bond because your mom and dad didn’t contribute to your real estate goals? Sorry, but that’s messed up.

Don’t get me wrong—what your in-laws have done by helping to create a situation in which they can be in your kids’ life every day is amazing, and it makes sense that you’re grateful. It also makes sense that the reward for this arrangement is lots of time and closeness with the little ones. It’s fine to tell your parents that the logical consequence of their choice to move hours away is that they aren’t going to have as many visits. But your explanation should be about the wrangling of the kids and the exhausting drive, not what they’ve chosen to do with their bank accounts.

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Did the parents have money when they were kids?

If the parents didn't have money then they could still have helped their kids apply for FAFSA. The fact that the kids had to wait until they were "independently able to qualify for loans" suggests to me that the parents didn't even do the very bare minimum - signing paperwork confirming that they would not be able to chip in for their kids to go to college.

I don't think this is about money at all. I think this is about a whole lot of stuff, most of which is hard to describe succinctly, and LW only went with the money example because people at least understand it in a way that they don't understand that more nebulous stuff.

it's possible, but LW really dwells on the money issue, in a way that seems pretty repugnant to me. My mother and I have been having endless conversations where she talks about making sure she saves some money for me and every time I tell her to spend it all, for goodness' sake, it's hers.

Also, not every cultural group in America values college and devalues blue collar work (some of which can be financially much more stable than some degree-requiring jobs). That's one of the reasons I wonder if the letter came from the husband -- it almost seems like that's an outsider looking at a different kind of family (large, blue collar, non-college) and just seeing neglect.

it's possible, but LW really dwells on the money issue, in a way that seems pretty repugnant to me.

Not signing paperwork saying "Can't pay, won't pay" seems pretty repugnant to me. It's a signature, not a pound of flesh.

LW also implicitly states that her parents don't appear to be interested in her kids as actual people. I'd really like to know what she means by that, exactly, but as it's one of the first thing she says I kinda think it's one of the more important things.

Agreed. They lost interest when the kids were old enough to speak their minds, according to this letter. That's pretty independently damning, and so is not helping with FAFSA.

If LW is obsessed with the money angle now, that would not be all that out there in someone who experienced the trouble she describes in struggling to go to college. People who have experienced insecurity often compulsively fixate on or hoard the resource that was insecure in their formative years.

I have a parent who also lost interest in kids once they were old enough to talk back/have opinions/not be at his beck and call.

It's a pretty horrible experience and also is absolutely not mistakeable for anything else.

Some people have children because what they really want is to impose their will on other people.

Some people have children because what they really want is to impose their will on other people.

+1000

I haven't had to deal with FAFSA yet. Are we talking a really simple one-page form saying "I can't pay for my kids, here's my SSN so you can verify for yourself, signature", or are we talking pulling together years of tax returns and bank statements and other financial data? If it's the latter, I can absolutely see exhausted parents who don't see the value of college not wanting to expend the effort.

Which doesn't invalidate the other things LW says that indicate a general pattern of parental neglect once the kid is no longer an adorable baby. And if LW's parents want to see their grandkids, they should be making at least as much effort as LW is.

The part with the parental information isn't that involved - one year of tax information from the tax return.

Yeah, I'm an exhausted, disabled, ADHD parent, but I still made sure my daughter wasn't screwed for FAFSA.

Parental refusal to fill out the forms, OTOH, pretty much locks teenagers and young adults out of access to financial aid for college.

Yeah, like, there are workarounds for people who are estranged from their abusive parents, and in theory colleges have people who know how to help you fill out that enormous amount of paperwork - but in practice, lots of them don't really because the people who need that help don't even know it exists or that this is an option.

Just on a note: financial aid institutions often have very different ideas as to what "can't pay" means, and don't often care about "won't pay." It can take a while for a young adult to be considered "independent" enough for their income and their income only to be the primary factor in getting financial aid. That said, I very much suspect the parents also weren't rushing to stop declaring the kids as dependents on their own taxes.