Abby and alcohol: historically, not awesome

[cereta]

DEAR ABBY: I have been dating an alcoholic for three years. He recently entered a treatment program because after his last binge he tried to kill himself. He seems to be committed to his program and staying sober.

He has requested that I stay sober with him for at least a year. While I'm fully committed to our relationship and support him, I don't feel that it's fair that I should have to completely forgo drinking because he has a problem. I'm not looking to go out and party every night -- those days are over for me -- but I'd like to enjoy an occasional beer with a friend or a glass of wine with my mom.

When I approached him about my doing so, he became upset. He said if I have this one exception, he believes the exceptions will continue and I will be at his old level of drinking. Do you think his request is reasonable? -- SOBER IN NEW JERSEY

DEAR SOBER: That depends upon whether you, too, had an alcohol problem before your boyfriend joined the program and were his drinking buddy. If the answer is yes, I don't think his request is unreasonable. However, your boyfriend may be afraid that if you drink regularly, it may threaten his newfound sobriety. If that's the case, if you love him, you should refrain for a year as he has requested.

Comments

[watersword]

Captain Awkward #607 feels relevant here, although the relationship under discussion at the moment is of longer duration.

I'm leaning toward "if the LW wanted to abstain to support their partner, that would be a lovely gesture and I'm sure much appreciated; boyfriend asking the LW not to drink around him is a reasonable request; boyfriend forcing the LW to change their relationship with alcohol at boyfriend's behest is not okay."

Where the hell did Abby get the idea that the LW also has problems with alcohol? It's totally possible to have someone in your life whom you love with an addiction without sharing in it. (Answer: she's Abby, that's how.)

[minoanmiss]

Yeah, Captain Awkward's answer covered everything I was about to say and much more besides. Thank you for linking to that.

[watersword]

There's some really good stuff in the comments, too, about people new to sobriety and the stuff that often crops up there.

[minoanmiss]

Word. I'm reading the comments right now and copying down the wisest to a file (three so far).

[recessional]

The LW says "he believes . . . .I will be at his old level of drinking."

Which is weird and nonsensical unless she also tended to at least somewhat overindulge.

(Which: it may be weird and nonsensical! But I think that's where she's getting the implication.)

[torachan]

Yeah, basically. I think it's reasonable that he ask her not to drink in his presence, but it's pretty controlling to say she can never drink at all.

[jadelennox]

Right. I can never understand people who choose to drink in the presence of a recovering alcoholic -- nobody needs a beer that much, that they can't abstain to protect their friend -- but when you're apart? WTF?

[cereta]

I want to see responses to this. There is something about it that strikes me badly (mostly the "if you love him" bit), and this is probably not helped by my reread of Doctor Sleep and been immersed on AA speak, but (1) assigning responsibility for his sobriety externally, and (b) using the issue to isolate the LW. But these are gut reactions that may be overly colored by my reading and experiences. Thoughts?

[minoanmiss]

The externalizing responsibility for his sobriety and asking her to give up alcohol in *all circumstances* raised my hackles too. If she isn't also having trouble with alcohol (which I actually thought was a reasonable thing to ask about) then I think ... it's fair for him to ask that she not drink or be visibly impaired in his presence. I don't think it's fair for him to require her to avoid alcohol when she's not around him, because, well, those are parts of her life that don't overlap with his.

[recessional]

I don't actually see a problem with the fundamental request, and honestly depending on one's level of mental fragility in trying to kick the addiction, I can also genuinely see one's partner continuing to use the substance you were trying to ditch be a stressor that's more than you can deal with. (I've mostly seen this with smoking: reasonable or not, even if there's no OBVIOUS sign, knowing that your partner might be having a cigarette adds a MASSIVE weight to trying to avoid pulling one out yourself, and it gets a lot easier to quit if everyone else in your life is also non-smoking.)

And yes: one's recovery is one's own responsibility. But sometimes that means that it's one's responsibility to take oneself away from the things that put pressure on you to relapse, even - and sometimes especially - if that thing is another person.

So for me fundamentally: it's fair to ask. On the other hand, it's also fair for her to say "no, I'm going to keep having a beer or two with friends." That's one of the awkward things about asking for things from people: they get to say "no", and then you get to sort out what you're going to do about it.

Also for me if this is in fact a totally unique request and everything else in the relationship is fine and so on, I would also see "not drinking alcohol for a year" as a rather minor thing to commit to.

Where it gets MESSY through NOPE for me, is a few things:

- in general, if this is in any way part of a pattern of trying to control one's partner's behaviour and/or the recovering partner gives indication of thinking this is something they have a RIGHT to, as opposed to having a right to ask for (and then have the other person freely choose one way or the other)

- if in general it feels manipulative, which is REALLY CONTEXTUAL, and depends on everything from body-language to past behaviour to exact wording to personal history/histories

- it becomes a moralistic thing

- something else but my cat distracted me and I lost it damn.

To reference the CA linked above, it'd've been fine for the guy in the letter to say "I thought you abstained, and I can't be in a relationship with a drinker". That's HIS DECISION about HIS LIFE. Now that may mean that the relationship dissolves right then; "fair" doesn't mean "will fix the relationship" and sometimes people just will not work, and this kind of thing can be a reason.

Where it gets skeeze-oogy is that it immediately became an attempt to badger/pressure/harangue the LW into being teetotal with the relationship being used as a thing to wave and loom with.


And then in THIS particular case, I am mostly having a squint at the screen, because of the boyfriend being worried that LW will be back at his level of drinking.

Which to me implies one of two things: either she does actually have a history of binge-drinking that she's elided, in which case he may have reason to be concerned (and it's really not uncommon for addicts to basically come in pairs and have one be less visible/aware of the addiction than the other because it's managed better, but with their dynamic feeding the mutual addiction). . . . or that he is in fact using this issue as a bid for manipulative control and is trying to conflate their behaviour in order to get psychological leverage over her.


So those are my thoughts.

[naath]

mmm, I think that wanting the moral support of someone else being totally abstinent is fine, but then you have to go with maybe not dating people who don't want to do that... not everyone is your perfect partner.

There's a lot of social pressure to drink sometimes, not always direct and easy to say "STOP THAT" at. And maybe having someone else dealing with that. With the social awkwardness of saying "no Mum, I've given it up" or of being the only sober one at a party... maybe that is really important to this person, but he should make that clear.

Also just how removed are these occasions from him? Sure, he isn't *there*, but does she come home drunk, smelling/tasting (I assume they kiss) of booze? these things could be hard on a recovering alcoholic.

[xenacryst]

Ooog. There's a lot going on here, and a heck of a lot that's not being said... pretty common for an advice column letter. And some of it twigs at a personal level.

So, my mother is, when you to it, a recovered alcoholic. I did not know this until a couple years ago - I knew she didn't drink, I knew my dad did until the cancer treatments said he couldn't. I knew my mom had ... had run ins with alcohol before, but not the history of it. And here I was, having inherited my dad's tolerance, control, and complete inability to form substance addictions.

I can't just turn off my relationship with my mother, nor her with me. So we work it out - I know, now, when drinking is going to make her uncomfortable, and to what extent - my drinking, or other people in the family. She knows when I'm likely to have a beer, what the circumstances are. And here's a big key: she trusts that I have that self control and knowledge - that I'll know if or when it's a problem. And I trust that if she's got a problem with what I'm doing, she'll tell me. Trust.

And that's what's not in the letter - I don't see any trust between those two, either direction, around alcohol. Boyfriend doesn't trust LW to live her own life and have her own self control. LW doesn't have the trust that this is an honest (and complicated!) attempt to stay sober and not control her. And maybe there's a good reason there isn't any trust, but to me, it's glaringly missing. And that speaks a lot more than the wording of phrases or even the content of dealing with alcoholism.

[cereta]

Thanks to everyone for the comments and perspectives.

[ysobel]

Other issues aside, "if you love him, you should refrain for a year as he has requested." has me noping like hell. LW cannot be responsible for bf's sobriety, and they can damn well love him (and support his sobriety) *and* decide they don't want to sacrifice that aspect of their life. Asking them to stay sober to help the bf's sobriety can only properly be a request, not a command, and is not a measure/proof of love.