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Two Dear Prudence letters about people who need to get OUT of their abusive relationships
Plus a bonus one from Dear Harriette
1. Dear Prudence,
I recently discovered that my boyfriend of almost two years, Adam, was stalking me for over a year before we met. For context: This is the best relationship I’ve ever had and until recently, I would have told you that Adam was perfect for me. He is thoughtful, funny, caring, and so supportive. I was violently abused growing up and all my relationships before Adam were with guys who hit me too—Adam has never been violent and encouraged me to see a therapist last year to help me through my trauma and internalized homophobia (I’m a gay man). Therapy went well, and it meant the world to me how kind and supportive Adam was throughout.
We moved in together quite recently.
It was when I was on his computer to print something that I found a file with my name in it. (I did a search for my full name to quickly find the document I had sent over to print, and this other one came up as buried within some folder of Adam’s.) The document had last been edited in 2019, before we met. I opened it, and felt like I’d stepped into a horror movie. It was full of information about me: jobs, hobbies, friends, ex-boyfriends, favorite coffee shop (the place where we officially “met” in what seemed to me like a cute coincidence). More chillingly, it contained details of my addresses and my ex-boyfriend’s address.
Adam walked in on me looking at it, and I just started yelling at him, demanding to know what the hell this was. He stalled for a while, then admitted everything. He had first seen me playing piano at a jazz bar he likes (I’m a musician), but I’d blow him off when he tried to talk to me there (I had a boyfriend at the time). He said he “couldn’t get me out of his head” and ended up wanting to know more about me after seeing me there every week, so he started following me. He claims it started innocently enough with standard social media “stalking” but “just sort of escalated.” He said he had never been this obsessive about anyone else, which I think I believe, as I’ve met his ex and they’re on perfectly cordial terms (his ex was friendly and certainly didn’t mention anything along the lines of “by the way, he stalked me”).
I was deeply freaked out and panicked but Adam persuaded me to stay; we’re currently sleeping in separate rooms because I feel so weird around him right now. I wanted to talk to a friend but he begged me not to, saying they wouldn’t understand and that my friends shouldn’t “get a vote in our relationship.” I know this is crazy of me but I am genuinely conflicted. I wish I’d never seen the document. I still love him more than anyone else I’ve ever known and honestly want to give him a chance, since he’s begged forgiveness and said he’ll do anything I want to prove himself trustworthy again. Is there anything he could do that would prove that? Am I being unbelievably stupid for even considering this not a dealbreaker? I feel trapped and slightly crazy right now. Please help.
—Am I Being Crazy?
Dear Am I Being Crazy,
Short answer: No, you’re not! But your boyfriend is. And you should break up with him.
But let’s take a step back. I have to admit my first reaction to your question was way off. I kind of thought, “Well, don’t we all engage in some level of stalking of people we’re dating or hope to date?” After all, I currently have a tab open with the professional website of a guy my friend is chatting with on Tinder, although he hasn’t told her where he works yet. I’ve also lightly vetted him with one of his former colleagues. Would he be absolutely creeped out if he saw evidence of this? Probably. Are my friend and I dangerous psychos? I don’t think so! (I hope not!) We’re just excited and curious.
But something told me to double-check my take and I’m glad I did. When I shared your question on Twitter and asked people to weigh in, a couple of things were clarified for me.
First, all stalking is not created equal. There’s innocent stalking, and then there’s worrisome, scary stalking. The way your boyfriend operated put his behavior in the latter category. The documentation! The addresses! Tracking your movements! Literally showing up to find you at the coffee shop! This is more than just scrolling through someone’s Instagram—or even Googling them and reading all the results—to get a better sense of who they are.
-- To my mind, having it stored in a document feels very…premeditated, and as though one of them came into the relationship with a huge power imbalance. Googling someone? Cool, normal. Seeing a stranger and figuring out where they hang out to stage a meet cute? Eh. Google doc? Nah —![[profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
saralang
-- run, addresses and ex addresses put this waaaayy beyond the “I checked their Instagram too much” category —jwjones252
-- Yikes. Leave; he isn’t who you thought he was. And what he actually is is pretty creepy and worrisome. I mean we all stalk, right? But the level and documentation suggest this person is most likely a serial killer. Kidding. Sort of… —ginandspice
-- …I think there’s a big difference between availing yourself of whatever info someone has made publicly available about themselves, and doing a deep dive into their personal life and tracking their whereabouts to arrange a “coincidental” meeting at a place they frequent. —dbzbornak
Second, his attempt to keep you from sharing this with your friends is really concerning and speaks to a possible effort to isolate you from people who would support you and your instincts about what he did. It also suggests that he knows his behavior was wrong.
-- Here’s the really chilling part: “I wanted to talk to a friend but he begged me not to…” This might have just been an over-the-top crush, but if he’s attempting to isolate you from your support networks, run, don’t walk away from him, and please call a DV hotline ASAP. —cryingbaseball
-- I was torn on this until the bf told the OP not to share this with friends. Classic isolation stuff and huge red flag esp given the context —eparillon
-- GET OUT!!!!! Yesterday! When he said that Adam told him not to tell anyone, that they wouldn’t understand, THEY’LL UNDERSTAND HE WAS A STALKER! —aloe9678
Finally, something occurred to me as I read everyone’s extremely alarmed responses: I realized they mirrored the “deeply freaked out” feeling you expressed in your letter. If you’re feeling so horrified by someone’s behavior that you want to sleep in a different room, that’s enough. I know a small voice in your head is probably saying, “But he’s been so great otherwise.” But asdstar put it, “He *seems* perfect because he researched what a perfect boyfriend to LW would be! it’s creepy AF & LW should not let their apparent compatibility stop them from leaving.”
It’s over. Now that you know what you know, you won’t be happy or at peace, and no amount of rationalizing or therapy will get you there. You don’t have to ask for input or permission to run in the other direction.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/10/boyfriend-stalked-me-before-we-dated-dear-prudence-advice.html
2. Dear Prudence,
I have been with my fiancé for three and a half years, engaged for one year. We have been through a lot together (both good and bad) and have sacrificed things for each other (family, friends, time, money, etc.). We are opposites, and disagree on much, but have a deep and profound emotional connection.
I called off our wedding because I went through his phone and found him sexting many women, complete with pictures and videos. (It should be noted that in the begging of our relationship he flirted with someone he used to have casual sex with on the phone also.) He also was inappropriate with a female friend, sending her pictures of himself in panties.
He has since stopped talking to other women and the friend, but I’m worried about his future behavior. He claims he only did these things because I was acting like a zombie at home, being quiet and distant. He won’t promise me he won’t do these things anymore unless I promise I won’t resent him again. We are actively seeking couples’ therapy, but he’s constantly saying he can’t wait until the therapist tells me I’m wrong on everything. I’m tired of him blowing up on me and acting spiteful during our constant fights, and I’m not sure if he’s worth being with anymore, even though we both love each other so much.
— Loyal to the End
Dear Loyal,
You are opposites, he’s cheated on you, you’re worried about your future, he blows up on you, and he’s only going to therapy to prove you wrong. I hate to bore readers by repeating everything that’s been said in a letter, but I think you need to read that sentence. If you care about yourself at all or ever hope to be happy, break up. I know you think you “love each other so much,” but I promise you if you cut off contact you’ll look back in five years and realize your definition of love may have been flawed and you dodged a bullet by not marrying this terrible guy.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/10/dear-prudence-couples-therapy-win.html
3. DEAR HARRIETTE: When my husband drinks, he gets nasty -- and he drinks a lot. Worse still, the next day he doesn't remember what he did or said the night before. I feel like this behavior only got worse while we were home for so long due to COVID-19. I have had enough. I’m tired of him cursing at me, telling me I don’t know anything, screaming and then telling me I’m crazy for saying he’s screaming. It really is out of control. Plus, we have started hanging out with other people of late, and he has embarrassed me around them. It’s bad enough for him to berate me privately, but now he has done it in front of witnesses. What can I do to get him to stop? When he is sober, he is kind and sometimes funny, but he has no recollection of that other side. -- Dr. Jekyll
DEAR DR. JEKYLL: If possible, use your smartphone to record your husband -- discreetly! -- the next time he is drunk and out of control. When your husband is sober, show him the footage so that he can see how he behaved. Being a witness to his own behavior may help to open his eyes. It can be a conversation starter as well. You can use it to point out that not only does his behavior turn negative, but he seems to have no memory of it. That should be cause for alarm.
Ask your husband to stop drinking and to seek out help to deal with whatever his emotional issues are that trigger the negativity toward you. Tell him you are tired of being treated this way. It must end now. Be prepared to establish consequences if your husband does not change.
https://www.uexpress.com/life/sense-and-sensitivity/2021/09/30
1. Dear Prudence,
I recently discovered that my boyfriend of almost two years, Adam, was stalking me for over a year before we met. For context: This is the best relationship I’ve ever had and until recently, I would have told you that Adam was perfect for me. He is thoughtful, funny, caring, and so supportive. I was violently abused growing up and all my relationships before Adam were with guys who hit me too—Adam has never been violent and encouraged me to see a therapist last year to help me through my trauma and internalized homophobia (I’m a gay man). Therapy went well, and it meant the world to me how kind and supportive Adam was throughout.
We moved in together quite recently.
It was when I was on his computer to print something that I found a file with my name in it. (I did a search for my full name to quickly find the document I had sent over to print, and this other one came up as buried within some folder of Adam’s.) The document had last been edited in 2019, before we met. I opened it, and felt like I’d stepped into a horror movie. It was full of information about me: jobs, hobbies, friends, ex-boyfriends, favorite coffee shop (the place where we officially “met” in what seemed to me like a cute coincidence). More chillingly, it contained details of my addresses and my ex-boyfriend’s address.
Adam walked in on me looking at it, and I just started yelling at him, demanding to know what the hell this was. He stalled for a while, then admitted everything. He had first seen me playing piano at a jazz bar he likes (I’m a musician), but I’d blow him off when he tried to talk to me there (I had a boyfriend at the time). He said he “couldn’t get me out of his head” and ended up wanting to know more about me after seeing me there every week, so he started following me. He claims it started innocently enough with standard social media “stalking” but “just sort of escalated.” He said he had never been this obsessive about anyone else, which I think I believe, as I’ve met his ex and they’re on perfectly cordial terms (his ex was friendly and certainly didn’t mention anything along the lines of “by the way, he stalked me”).
I was deeply freaked out and panicked but Adam persuaded me to stay; we’re currently sleeping in separate rooms because I feel so weird around him right now. I wanted to talk to a friend but he begged me not to, saying they wouldn’t understand and that my friends shouldn’t “get a vote in our relationship.” I know this is crazy of me but I am genuinely conflicted. I wish I’d never seen the document. I still love him more than anyone else I’ve ever known and honestly want to give him a chance, since he’s begged forgiveness and said he’ll do anything I want to prove himself trustworthy again. Is there anything he could do that would prove that? Am I being unbelievably stupid for even considering this not a dealbreaker? I feel trapped and slightly crazy right now. Please help.
—Am I Being Crazy?
Dear Am I Being Crazy,
Short answer: No, you’re not! But your boyfriend is. And you should break up with him.
But let’s take a step back. I have to admit my first reaction to your question was way off. I kind of thought, “Well, don’t we all engage in some level of stalking of people we’re dating or hope to date?” After all, I currently have a tab open with the professional website of a guy my friend is chatting with on Tinder, although he hasn’t told her where he works yet. I’ve also lightly vetted him with one of his former colleagues. Would he be absolutely creeped out if he saw evidence of this? Probably. Are my friend and I dangerous psychos? I don’t think so! (I hope not!) We’re just excited and curious.
But something told me to double-check my take and I’m glad I did. When I shared your question on Twitter and asked people to weigh in, a couple of things were clarified for me.
First, all stalking is not created equal. There’s innocent stalking, and then there’s worrisome, scary stalking. The way your boyfriend operated put his behavior in the latter category. The documentation! The addresses! Tracking your movements! Literally showing up to find you at the coffee shop! This is more than just scrolling through someone’s Instagram—or even Googling them and reading all the results—to get a better sense of who they are.
-- To my mind, having it stored in a document feels very…premeditated, and as though one of them came into the relationship with a huge power imbalance. Googling someone? Cool, normal. Seeing a stranger and figuring out where they hang out to stage a meet cute? Eh. Google doc? Nah —
saralang-- run, addresses and ex addresses put this waaaayy beyond the “I checked their Instagram too much” category —
jwjones252-- Yikes. Leave; he isn’t who you thought he was. And what he actually is is pretty creepy and worrisome. I mean we all stalk, right? But the level and documentation suggest this person is most likely a serial killer. Kidding. Sort of… —
ginandspice-- …I think there’s a big difference between availing yourself of whatever info someone has made publicly available about themselves, and doing a deep dive into their personal life and tracking their whereabouts to arrange a “coincidental” meeting at a place they frequent. —
dbzbornakSecond, his attempt to keep you from sharing this with your friends is really concerning and speaks to a possible effort to isolate you from people who would support you and your instincts about what he did. It also suggests that he knows his behavior was wrong.
-- Here’s the really chilling part: “I wanted to talk to a friend but he begged me not to…” This might have just been an over-the-top crush, but if he’s attempting to isolate you from your support networks, run, don’t walk away from him, and please call a DV hotline ASAP. —
cryingbaseball-- I was torn on this until the bf told the OP not to share this with friends. Classic isolation stuff and huge red flag esp given the context —
eparillon-- GET OUT!!!!! Yesterday! When he said that Adam told him not to tell anyone, that they wouldn’t understand, THEY’LL UNDERSTAND HE WAS A STALKER! —
aloe9678Finally, something occurred to me as I read everyone’s extremely alarmed responses: I realized they mirrored the “deeply freaked out” feeling you expressed in your letter. If you’re feeling so horrified by someone’s behavior that you want to sleep in a different room, that’s enough. I know a small voice in your head is probably saying, “But he’s been so great otherwise.” But as
dstar put it, “He *seems* perfect because he researched what a perfect boyfriend to LW would be! it’s creepy AF & LW should not let their apparent compatibility stop them from leaving.”It’s over. Now that you know what you know, you won’t be happy or at peace, and no amount of rationalizing or therapy will get you there. You don’t have to ask for input or permission to run in the other direction.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/10/boyfriend-stalked-me-before-we-dated-dear-prudence-advice.html
2. Dear Prudence,
I have been with my fiancé for three and a half years, engaged for one year. We have been through a lot together (both good and bad) and have sacrificed things for each other (family, friends, time, money, etc.). We are opposites, and disagree on much, but have a deep and profound emotional connection.
I called off our wedding because I went through his phone and found him sexting many women, complete with pictures and videos. (It should be noted that in the begging of our relationship he flirted with someone he used to have casual sex with on the phone also.) He also was inappropriate with a female friend, sending her pictures of himself in panties.
He has since stopped talking to other women and the friend, but I’m worried about his future behavior. He claims he only did these things because I was acting like a zombie at home, being quiet and distant. He won’t promise me he won’t do these things anymore unless I promise I won’t resent him again. We are actively seeking couples’ therapy, but he’s constantly saying he can’t wait until the therapist tells me I’m wrong on everything. I’m tired of him blowing up on me and acting spiteful during our constant fights, and I’m not sure if he’s worth being with anymore, even though we both love each other so much.
— Loyal to the End
Dear Loyal,
You are opposites, he’s cheated on you, you’re worried about your future, he blows up on you, and he’s only going to therapy to prove you wrong. I hate to bore readers by repeating everything that’s been said in a letter, but I think you need to read that sentence. If you care about yourself at all or ever hope to be happy, break up. I know you think you “love each other so much,” but I promise you if you cut off contact you’ll look back in five years and realize your definition of love may have been flawed and you dodged a bullet by not marrying this terrible guy.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/10/dear-prudence-couples-therapy-win.html
3. DEAR HARRIETTE: When my husband drinks, he gets nasty -- and he drinks a lot. Worse still, the next day he doesn't remember what he did or said the night before. I feel like this behavior only got worse while we were home for so long due to COVID-19. I have had enough. I’m tired of him cursing at me, telling me I don’t know anything, screaming and then telling me I’m crazy for saying he’s screaming. It really is out of control. Plus, we have started hanging out with other people of late, and he has embarrassed me around them. It’s bad enough for him to berate me privately, but now he has done it in front of witnesses. What can I do to get him to stop? When he is sober, he is kind and sometimes funny, but he has no recollection of that other side. -- Dr. Jekyll
DEAR DR. JEKYLL: If possible, use your smartphone to record your husband -- discreetly! -- the next time he is drunk and out of control. When your husband is sober, show him the footage so that he can see how he behaved. Being a witness to his own behavior may help to open his eyes. It can be a conversation starter as well. You can use it to point out that not only does his behavior turn negative, but he seems to have no memory of it. That should be cause for alarm.
Ask your husband to stop drinking and to seek out help to deal with whatever his emotional issues are that trigger the negativity toward you. Tell him you are tired of being treated this way. It must end now. Be prepared to establish consequences if your husband does not change.
https://www.uexpress.com/life/sense-and-sensitivity/2021/09/30
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Which he probably won't, sorry to say, so LW3 might as well just get out and file for divorce. Don't show him the recording, he might turn violent without drinking first, just save it for the lawyers.
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2. You don't "love each other so much." He doesn't love you. Get out.
3. What can I do to get him to stop? Not a thing, but you can stop being married to him. Get out.
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2. It doesn't even sound like the LW likes their fiance, much less love him. What part of this is "deep and profound emotional connection"? I know they edit these letters down and all but...
3. Harriette, just give them the sensible advice of divorce instead of whatever the hell this is.
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#2: Gosh, he's consistently cheating on you. And about 5 million other things. Go Away From This Relationship (But I don't like you much, either.)
#3: Harriette, you suck. LW, flee like the wind.
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Also
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The nice side of these guys is not 'nice'. It's a veneer. A seeming. A veil that LW has peered through and, having realised what's on the other side of the curtain is horrifying, has promptly dropped the veil and backed away. But what's on the other side of the veil is still there. And it will always be there unless LW's partner chooses to take down the veil and dismantle what is on the other side as LW watches.
We all have not-nice sides, but obsessive stalking, repeated infidelity, and abusive behaviours are major major things that require serious dealing with, not just pretending it's not there.
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But if he admits to physically following you - and if he's begging you not to tell anyone - get out.
However, given he's admitted to stalker tendencies, LW, I hate to say this, but: get out carefully. Let him think you're reconciled and then go to your friends and domestic violence resources and work out an escape plan that won't leave you immediately vulnerable to further and more escalated stalking. Because... yeah.
3. You need to separate. Maybe you don't need to divorce? If you do still love him, and it really is just the alcohol, maybe if he kicks the habit you can still be with him. But you don't need to be in the same living space with him in the meantime, and you don't need to have your finances tangled up with his. Separate your finances and your living space, tell him you still love him and want to spend time with him sober, and give him an ultimatum to quit.
Or just dump him entirely.
But don't, don't, don't stay in that house, if you have any other option.