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My wife and I are the parents of four adult children (ages 22–30). They live all over the country, but we enjoy organizing two to three family visits per year, at our home, when all four children fly in for a long weekend or holiday break.
The issue is one of our middle children, “Caley.” While the other five of us enjoy outdoorsy adventures, Caley is bookish, much preferring to stay inside and read/play board games or perhaps go to a museum. She also enjoys a slower-paced day, with perhaps one activity out of the house. Meanwhile, the five of us enjoy things like mountain biking, downhill skiing, and rock climbing. These adventures often take up a whole day and involve some less-fun portions (like hiking to the climbing area) alongside the fun. Caley used to be a pretty good sport. Lately, however, she’s been balking at joining us for these trips. She’ll either refuse to go outright—staying home by herself all day—or she’ll put a seemingly arbitrary “limit” on what we can do, like a 5-mile hike instead of a 10-miler. Everyone else gets grouchy that their fun is limited because of Caley, and Caley’s grouchy that she’s the odd one out. No one enjoys themselves.
We’ve started just acquiescing and leaving Caley home, but the result is the rest of the family has high-quality bonding time without her—and I know she’s bummed about this. I don’t want her to think of herself as a “black sheep” and I do respect her desire to set boundaries about the level of outdoor activity she engages in. But I also think it’s ridiculous for her to fly across the country only to sit home alone. None of us want to sit inside all day with her. I know that differentiation is an important part of growing up and I’m worried about how to handle this in a way that respects everyone’s wishes. Do you have any advice?
— Not a Bookworm in Boise
My advice is to genuinely accept and respect all of your children, not just the ones you have an easier time relating to because they share your hobbies. That your twentysomething daughter Caley is, like all your children, an individual with individual likes and preferences shouldn’t be such a source of conflict in your family—it’s only an issue because you’ve alternatively bullied her into going your way or excluded her when that was more convenient for you. You clearly don’t entirely respect her boundaries or her wishes, whatever you say, or you wouldn’t be calling a 5-mile hike “an arbitrary limit.”
Now, does being part of a family require us to occasionally go along with an activity we might not be wild about? Of course. But by your own admission, Caley has been a “good sport” for a long time—after twenty-odd years, you can’t claim she hasn’t given that #outdoorlife a try. She’s accepted that you all like what you like, and sometimes she does things she doesn’t personally like in order to spend time with you, the people she loves. Yet you have not done her the same basic courtesy! What you really seem to want is for her to be just like your other children—i.e., just like you—and enjoy everything you personally enjoy, to the degree to which you enjoy it. This is neither fair nor realistic. You’re fortunate that all of your adult kids are able and willing to have big family get-togethers at your home several times a year. You must know—especially after a year-plus of pandemic life—that the time when all of you can have these visits together is both precious and finite. Do you really think it makes sense to spend any of that limited time excluding or making one-fourth of your children unhappy?
You owe Caley an apology—and not the empty “sorry you feel this way and are no fun, Caley” sort of apology—as well as kinder treatment from now on. I promise it won’t kill you to spend a half-day or even a whole one playing board games or doing a puzzle or visiting a museum or just, I don’t know, eating good food and having some real conversation? Maybe you’d get to better know and appreciate your daughter if you tried to care about things she cares about and deigned to join her in activities she enjoys once in a while, instead of always insisting she spend time with you solely on your terms. Stop wishing for her to be another carbon copy of the rest of you, be glad she is her own person, and accept and love and appreciate her as she is.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/08/nonbinary-twins-care-and-feeding.html
The issue is one of our middle children, “Caley.” While the other five of us enjoy outdoorsy adventures, Caley is bookish, much preferring to stay inside and read/play board games or perhaps go to a museum. She also enjoys a slower-paced day, with perhaps one activity out of the house. Meanwhile, the five of us enjoy things like mountain biking, downhill skiing, and rock climbing. These adventures often take up a whole day and involve some less-fun portions (like hiking to the climbing area) alongside the fun. Caley used to be a pretty good sport. Lately, however, she’s been balking at joining us for these trips. She’ll either refuse to go outright—staying home by herself all day—or she’ll put a seemingly arbitrary “limit” on what we can do, like a 5-mile hike instead of a 10-miler. Everyone else gets grouchy that their fun is limited because of Caley, and Caley’s grouchy that she’s the odd one out. No one enjoys themselves.
We’ve started just acquiescing and leaving Caley home, but the result is the rest of the family has high-quality bonding time without her—and I know she’s bummed about this. I don’t want her to think of herself as a “black sheep” and I do respect her desire to set boundaries about the level of outdoor activity she engages in. But I also think it’s ridiculous for her to fly across the country only to sit home alone. None of us want to sit inside all day with her. I know that differentiation is an important part of growing up and I’m worried about how to handle this in a way that respects everyone’s wishes. Do you have any advice?
— Not a Bookworm in Boise
My advice is to genuinely accept and respect all of your children, not just the ones you have an easier time relating to because they share your hobbies. That your twentysomething daughter Caley is, like all your children, an individual with individual likes and preferences shouldn’t be such a source of conflict in your family—it’s only an issue because you’ve alternatively bullied her into going your way or excluded her when that was more convenient for you. You clearly don’t entirely respect her boundaries or her wishes, whatever you say, or you wouldn’t be calling a 5-mile hike “an arbitrary limit.”
Now, does being part of a family require us to occasionally go along with an activity we might not be wild about? Of course. But by your own admission, Caley has been a “good sport” for a long time—after twenty-odd years, you can’t claim she hasn’t given that #outdoorlife a try. She’s accepted that you all like what you like, and sometimes she does things she doesn’t personally like in order to spend time with you, the people she loves. Yet you have not done her the same basic courtesy! What you really seem to want is for her to be just like your other children—i.e., just like you—and enjoy everything you personally enjoy, to the degree to which you enjoy it. This is neither fair nor realistic. You’re fortunate that all of your adult kids are able and willing to have big family get-togethers at your home several times a year. You must know—especially after a year-plus of pandemic life—that the time when all of you can have these visits together is both precious and finite. Do you really think it makes sense to spend any of that limited time excluding or making one-fourth of your children unhappy?
You owe Caley an apology—and not the empty “sorry you feel this way and are no fun, Caley” sort of apology—as well as kinder treatment from now on. I promise it won’t kill you to spend a half-day or even a whole one playing board games or doing a puzzle or visiting a museum or just, I don’t know, eating good food and having some real conversation? Maybe you’d get to better know and appreciate your daughter if you tried to care about things she cares about and deigned to join her in activities she enjoys once in a while, instead of always insisting she spend time with you solely on your terms. Stop wishing for her to be another carbon copy of the rest of you, be glad she is her own person, and accept and love and appreciate her as she is.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/08/nonbinary-twins-care-and-feeding.html
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Maybe I'm misreading this, maybe they really do make a point to spend some time doing Caley things together - visiting a museum or playing board games with her some days instead of going on hikes.
But it sure doesn't sound like this, and if you're getting visibly grouchy over the fact that Caley compromised and you "only" got to go on a five mile hike instead of a ten mile hike, so that "no one enjoys themselves" then you're a pretty terrible sibling. What are these people going to do when their parents get older and can't manage the long hike either, just stop visiting Mom and Dad entirely?
Edit: Special shout out to this lovely gem -
I know that differentiation is an important part of growing up and I’m worried about how to handle this in a way that respects everyone’s wishes.
That's the sort of thing you say about a 14 year old who wants to go to the movies with her friends instead of to the yearly campout with her family, or who wants to try out for the musical instead of doing the sport Mom and Dad picked (and that, to be fair, she generally enjoyed) when she was three.
It's not what you say about an adult in her 20s who appears to have been more than a good sport for a very, very long time.
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Jfc, the only person who’s made any effort at all is Caley, and they’re still salty. I can’t even with this family…
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I am filled with rage.
Also, the idea that wanting to hike 5 miles less is "seemingly arbitrary," christ on a cannoli what an asshole.
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I hike! I hike a fair amount although I'm hardly the lord god king of hiking.
A five-mile hike over easy-to-moderate terrain will take around 2-3 hours for most people. You probably don't need any food, and 1 20-oz water bottle won't be QUITE enough but in most cases it will be ok, you'll just be thirsty by the end. You can usually do these hikes in sneakers and non-specialist clothing. It is fairly easy in a lot of places in the US to find a 5 mile hike within an hour's drive. You can drive out after lunch, do the hike, and be home for dinner.
A ten-mile hike is an all-day commitment and a minimum of about 5 hours hiking, possibly up to around 7 depending on terrain, etc. You have to carry much more with you (water, snacks, sunscreen, etc. -- usually a full day pack and maybe 2-3L of water) and most clothes not designed for hiking will rub and cause injury. Hikes this length often have stretches of significantly more difficult terrain. You almost certainly need hiking shoes or boots, specialized socks, trousers with no cotton, and a removable layer as well. Hikes of this length are often farther from residential areas and may require substantial driving (the one I am doing later this month is about 2.5 hours away).
I can understand ENTIRELY why Caley wants to do the first kind of hike, and not the second. It's not arbitrary at all -- 5 or 6 miles is about the limit of what it's safe and reasonable and fun to do without gear, a pack, extra water, etc. etc. and can comfortably fit into an afternoon. If the LW thought for FIVE SECONDS, this should have occurred to them as being Caley's reason for this "arbitrary" limit (even if it's not Caley's actual reason, it is a perfectly reasonable reason that ANY experienced hiker should have been able to think of, provided they aren't a nasty spoilsport).
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Come sit with me, Casey, and we'll read together.
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And Caley doesn't want to hike ten miles and then go mountain climbing, but she's been doing it because she loves you and wants to spend time with you. Are there any lessons you can draw from this, LW?
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OH, YOU DON'T WANT TO DO WHAT SHE LIKES? SHE MUST ALWAYS DO WHAT YOU LIKE?? FOR DECADES???
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Oh, yeah, LW, she's so bummed. Caley just can't bear it when you leave her alone to read or go to the museum or hang out with her childhood friend playing Settlers of Catan, instead of making fun or her or pestering her or nagging her. Just, whatever you do, don't throw her into that briar patch.
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Weeelll, I suppose climbing, and maybe hiking, provides some bonding component, but why is this more 'high-quality' than, e.g. looking at art or other exhibits in a museum?
Is it 'bonding' or is it just the feeling that 'we are all the same and doing the same thing together'?
And if Caley doesn't fly in for the family get-together, is there immense flak?
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ETA: If I thought for ONE MINUTE she would get it, I would send this to my mother. Hell, if anyone but my sister-in-law were still able to read my FB, I'd post it there. It wouldn't change anything, but I would.
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