Ask Amy: All Columnists Are Beginning to notice a change

[jadelennox]

Dear Amy: I was quite disturbed by your response to "Gardener," who witnessed two teenage boys stealing plants from her garden.

I cannot believe that you suggested this homeowner should call the police!

That advice could get those boys killed!

— Upset

Upset: My suggestion that this small-town homeowner should call her “local police department or sheriff’s office” to report this petty theft inspired many readers to respond with reactions similar to yours.

This assumption — that police kill teenagers — reflects the horror and fear of police violence, and whether this is a strictly accurate description of our current reality, the shocking truth is that many Americans (at least those responding to this column) have lost their faith in the police.

I admit to underestimating the magnitude of how afraid many people are of the police, who are supposed to protect them.

Comments

[jadelennox]

I was fascinated by this exchange: by a columnist engaging with the changing zeitgeist without falling back on unsubstantiated biases one way or the other, but also by Amy just expressing her interest in the changing zeitgeist without looking into research on when or whether police are dangerous, or by suggesting that readers look more into police in their neighborhood. Or questioning what we are to do about (petty or serious) crimes when we don't trust the po-po.

[oursin]

I am reminded of the frustrating (reported) position of an anarchist friend of a friend who had had their bike nicked: okay, they said, property is theft, but so is theft theft. (I do not know how they resolved the philosophical and practical conundrum.)

[lilysea]

My answer to the stolen bike would be: can you afford to replace it without financial hardship?

Do you live in an area where many people are on lower incomes than you?

If the answers are yes, and yes, you may not need to go to the police.

If one of the answers is no, the police may be appropriate.

[schneefink]

...wait, that was it? I was sure that there must be a another part to the reply but apparently not. This does not seem very helpful.

[minoanmiss]

That's a good first paragraph. Where are the rest?

[feldman]

This is obnoxiously disingenuous.

[cimorene]

Exactly this. Oh, it's interesting that people THINK that, is it? Gosh. Wow. How intellectually stimulating.

[cereta]

Seriously, I have completely stopped calling the police for noise complaints, front-lawn arguments that look like they might turn violent, and even minor trespassing on our property. This is one argument for defunding the police (in the sense of using some of that money to create other services). When a neighbor's music is making my windows rattle or one is projecting flashing light, there should be someone I can call who doesn't carry a gun.

[xenacryst]

I will sometimes call 911 if I hear gunshots on the major street a block away. This is a big city with both police problems and a fair amount of minority population, so a) 911 calls for gunshots usually get responded to in 24 hours, though don't bet on a response at all, b) the police kill Black people here (perhaps not with the glee and wild abandon that they do in some places, but they ain't stopped yet), c) it's mildly disturbing how often I do hear gunshots (I know pretty well what the sound of an M-80 is versus the sound of a gun - there are a lot of fireworks around here).

That's really the only time I consider calling 911. Sideshow at the major intersection 3 blocks away? Cover my head with a pillow, hope it stops by 1AM and that no one gets seriously hurt when the tires explode. Someone walking along the street screaming and yelling? See if we can raise the Anti Police Terror Project. Someone stealing the Christmas lights off my porch? Shake my head and make sure our windows and doors all lock well. Which is to say, I only call the police when I'm relatively certain a gun has already been used.

[cereta]

It is deeply fucked up that I don't dare call the police when there's a conflict taking place across the street in which there is a very real possibility that violence may occur because calling the police stands a very good chance of creating more and worse violence. We had a Latino show up on our front porch one night who'd obviously had the shit beaten out of him (we'd heard a rowdy group going through back yards earlier). We let him use our phone to call his mother, but he was adamant that neither the police nor an ambulance be called. All things considered, I can't say I blame him.

And I really need to learn the difference between a gunshot and an M-80, because we've had a number of shootings very nearby.

[xenacryst]

For learning what a gun sounds like (in relatively safe circumstances) standing near an outdoor shooting range is actually pretty decent. Of course, you have to compare that to fireworks, and if you don't have the kind of population that sets of questionable fireworks every weekend, that's a little harder. Gun shots tend to be very percussive sounding - people talk about the "crack" of a gunshot, and it really does, much more so than any kind of firework. Things like M-80s make a big loud boom, but it's more boom than crack. Smaller fireworks sometimes go off in rapid sequence, but the worst of them only sound like a fire fountain popping, but maybe a bit louder. Gun shots (at least around here) tend to come in multiples, but sometimes that's just two or sometimes 5 - rarely more than that. They tend to be almost regularly spaced, usually one or two per second (think of how fast you can regularly pull a trigger on a hand gun). The worst fireworks elicit a "welp, that was a loud one" from me, and gunshots elicit a very nervous quiet followed by a "what the fuck was that?"

I feel vaguely unnerved that I can just rattle that off.

[minoanmiss]

I'm not sure I could still tell the difference (I really don't want to have to ever again) but the ten year old I used to be recognizes what you describe here.

[cereta]

UGH, "Latino man." I had man in there, I swear. Must have erased it during an edit.

[sporky_rat]

I do call the local city police (it's like, twenty people including the dispatcher) when next door is hitting his wife.

Other than that, nah. (If someone tried to break in, they're gonna be sad pained people, my house is a maze and a nightmare with lots of tripping hazards)

[julian]

i see wat u did thar

But also, I do appreciate that Amy, bastion of white middle class... everything... is finding that *her own readers* feel this way. I mean, I lived through the past 3 years, I'm not *surprised*, but I am *glad*. Sea changes are sometimes hard to see in action; this one isn't, really.

[mommy]

Amy certainly dodged around having an opinion on police brutality.

[minoanmiss]

This is actually a harder question than it might sound. In the US there are several legal judgements that the police are not required to protect people, plus their increasing/increasingly reported tendency to escalate and shoot people. Whether or not I would call would Depend on Factors.

[minoanmiss]

That's very very different than the US -- to me, a member of a marginalized community that disproportionately suffers police brutality, that sounds almost idyllic. I'm kind of in awe.

In the US kids under 18 regularly go to "Juvenile Hall" aka Kid Prison, including kids under 10 years old, and there are pushes to give people under 18 adult punishments such as life in prison without parole. Also there are cases every year where the police shoot unarmed people, both over and under 18, often from racial minorities (such as the one I belong to). To say nothing of the many deaths in police custody...

[minoanmiss]

Okay, I apologize for that.

In the US some juveniles get away with horrible crimes (such as gang-raping 14 year olds) but they're almost always White and well to do, while the police feel entitled to shoot every Black kid they see. There has got to be some way to police that is actually about law and order and not about who can get away with what.

[eva_rosen]

The extreme garanties for criminals here are a knee-jerk response to years under a repressive military goverment after a coup, but since corruption is rampant, the fine tuning required to make that work is next to impossible. Though racism does exist (as it does in Europe, despite the unconvincing protests to the contrary), the main divide is class and económic position. The race issues and violence related to it was the main reason hubby and I left the US, though, and even with Argentina's many problems we don't regret it. And we're white-passing.

[lilysea]

In Australia I don't have many reservations about calling the Police, because everyone who has been in the news in Australia being killed by Police [and there are far less than in the US]
was doing one of the following at the time:
- firing a gun at Police
- waving a gun at Police
- waving a knife around
- waving an axe around
- waving a machete around

If I lived in the US on the other hand... I don't think I'd call the Police for anything except
- danger of arson
- danger of sexual assault
- danger of grievous bodily harm
- danger of murder...

[cereta]

I will say that I will (and have) unreservedly called the police when someone has broken into my home, even if the one time did seem to have been stupid teenagers acting on a dare. Because I don't know if they're stupid teenagers acting on a dare or if they intend something more serious. And even if I would take that risk for myself (and really, I won't), I won't take it for my kid.

[lilysea]

I count a break in while someone is home as

- danger of sexual assault
- danger of grievous bodily harm

my partner had a break in while he was home - the man knocked on the front door, my partner answered the door, the man hit my partner in the head with a cricket bat hard enough to cause a serious concussion

[this was many years ago]

[mommy]

I'd add "the insurance company probably requires a police report" to the list. I was in a very minor fender bender in 2019,and I didn't hesitate to call the police so that I could file a minor claim with my insurance company. The cop was there for his paperwork, not his aggression.