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Three tales of estrangement from Annie and Amy
1. Dear Amy: My sister-in-law told me that she was molested as a teenager. She told her mother after the abuse happened, to which her mother replied: "Everyone loses their virginity somehow.”
Not surprisingly, my sister-in-law has a difficult relationship with her mother, and my mother-in-law is not happy about it.
My husband does not have any idea that this occurred and blames his sister for the poor relationship with their mother.
His mother often questions me, asking if l know anything about why my sister-in-law is distant from her.
Should l tell my husband or mother-in-law the truth or just take this information to my grave?
I know my sister-in-law holds all her emotions in and will not talk to her mom about it. I feel caught in the middle.
– Very Concerned
Dear Concerned: You should encourage your sister-in-law to seek professional help in order to continue to process what happened to her, as well as her mother’s (heartless) response.
Why did she disclose this to you? Is she hoping that you will mediate? Has she asked you to?
This trauma – and the pressure of holding her emotions in – continues to affect her and her relationships. She has been violated and then betrayed – her trust in you is something you should treasure and protect.
I don’t think it would be fruitful for you to attempt to mediate with her mother, but because you are married to her brother, and he blames his sister for her relationship problems, you should encourage her to disclose this to him.
You could also ask her if she would like your help in talking to him. Perhaps with you there, she would feel safer and supported.
When your mother-in-law queries you about why her daughter is so distant, you should respond: “You are really asking the wrong person. I hope you two can work things out.”
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/askamy/s-2507825?fs
********
2. Dear Annie: My daughter-in-law could probably have written the letter about the person trying too hard to please their disapproving mother-in-law.
The reality is that there are always two sides to every story. Mine is that at some point, I did or said something to hurt my daughter-in-law. But I am not allowed to know what that was. So, any apology seems empty, although I have tried.
She now treats our entire family with complete apathy. We try. We send cards and acknowledge birthdays, anniversaries and holidays, despite having received no reciprocation for years. We offer to visit cross-country but are told it is a bad time. We offer to video chat but are often rejected. Our son does contact us with the grandchildren on occasion.
We would love to be a part of our grandkids' lives, but rejection gets harder and harder with time. We are blocked from Facebook posts and are not allowed to know our granddaughter's cell number. It is all very sad indeed.
Our daughter-in-law is loved and cared for, but her perception is that she is not. Please encourage others to forgive and reconcile. Life is too short to allow bitterness to fester and relationships to be destroyed.
A bright note is that our son's in-laws treat us with love and respect, and they are thankful that they have us in their lives. -- Two Sides to Every Story
Dear Two Sides to Every Story: Thank you for this different perspective. Forgiveness is a gift for you to give yourself as well as your daughter-in-law. The problem with her seems to be caused by her issues, not yours. But keep trying. Her parents' kindness is reason for hope.
Bonus comment from the comments: When an excuse like that is offered, but not the reason behind it. Chances are, there was no hurtful thing said. And, if you did say something, how did that spread to the "culprits" icing out the entire family? I had a friend who's brother's wife did the same cr*p. Excuse was that the mother and sister in law did or said something. Despite the passing of 5 years, no explanation of just what was said every came out. Most likely because it was bull-chips. And that witch who iced out the family is lovey-dovey with her own family, takes them on trips, visits them with the kids, and has her husband on a leash. Disgraceful that the son disrespects his mom and sister so much .... just to appease his witchy wife
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/dearannie/s-2507345
******************
3. Dear Amy: My adult sons are so estranged from my ex-husband that neither invited him to their weddings.
While I still have difficult feelings toward my ex, I try to have some level of civil interaction with him.
He often asks for updates as to what our sons are up to and how they are doing.
He is their father, and it seems to me that he has a right to know at least a bit about what is going on in their lives.
Is it inappropriate for me to share general information, such as buying a house or changing jobs or is that something that only they should share?
Since they want no contact with him, without some information from me he would have virtually no knowledge of them.
While I do hope that at some point my sons' feelings toward their father will soften, I have never pushed them to have more interactions with him.
Still, it does seem sad to me that he should not be able to have any knowledge of what is going on in their lives.
He rarely tries to contact them, although I know he has reached out in the past.
I don't pass along anything I would think of as a confidence. But sharing some basics doesn't seem wrong to me.
Am I off base?
– Unsure
Dear Unsure: You don’t say why your sons want no-contact with their father (and perhaps you don’t know), but this is an issue you should run past your sons.
What might seem like benign “general knowledge” to you might strike them as private and intrusive.
As it is your compassion toward your ex-husband is commendable, but you seem to be placing his desires and “rights” over those of your sons.
You could use this as an attempt to build a rickety bridge between all of these men: “Dad often asks about you; I don’t want to violate your privacy, so I want to make sure it’s OK if I share very general knowledge with him – just to let him know the basics?”
– Respect their decisions.
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/askamy/s-2510044?fs
Not surprisingly, my sister-in-law has a difficult relationship with her mother, and my mother-in-law is not happy about it.
My husband does not have any idea that this occurred and blames his sister for the poor relationship with their mother.
His mother often questions me, asking if l know anything about why my sister-in-law is distant from her.
Should l tell my husband or mother-in-law the truth or just take this information to my grave?
I know my sister-in-law holds all her emotions in and will not talk to her mom about it. I feel caught in the middle.
– Very Concerned
Dear Concerned: You should encourage your sister-in-law to seek professional help in order to continue to process what happened to her, as well as her mother’s (heartless) response.
Why did she disclose this to you? Is she hoping that you will mediate? Has she asked you to?
This trauma – and the pressure of holding her emotions in – continues to affect her and her relationships. She has been violated and then betrayed – her trust in you is something you should treasure and protect.
I don’t think it would be fruitful for you to attempt to mediate with her mother, but because you are married to her brother, and he blames his sister for her relationship problems, you should encourage her to disclose this to him.
You could also ask her if she would like your help in talking to him. Perhaps with you there, she would feel safer and supported.
When your mother-in-law queries you about why her daughter is so distant, you should respond: “You are really asking the wrong person. I hope you two can work things out.”
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/askamy/s-2507825?fs
2. Dear Annie: My daughter-in-law could probably have written the letter about the person trying too hard to please their disapproving mother-in-law.
The reality is that there are always two sides to every story. Mine is that at some point, I did or said something to hurt my daughter-in-law. But I am not allowed to know what that was. So, any apology seems empty, although I have tried.
She now treats our entire family with complete apathy. We try. We send cards and acknowledge birthdays, anniversaries and holidays, despite having received no reciprocation for years. We offer to visit cross-country but are told it is a bad time. We offer to video chat but are often rejected. Our son does contact us with the grandchildren on occasion.
We would love to be a part of our grandkids' lives, but rejection gets harder and harder with time. We are blocked from Facebook posts and are not allowed to know our granddaughter's cell number. It is all very sad indeed.
Our daughter-in-law is loved and cared for, but her perception is that she is not. Please encourage others to forgive and reconcile. Life is too short to allow bitterness to fester and relationships to be destroyed.
A bright note is that our son's in-laws treat us with love and respect, and they are thankful that they have us in their lives. -- Two Sides to Every Story
Dear Two Sides to Every Story: Thank you for this different perspective. Forgiveness is a gift for you to give yourself as well as your daughter-in-law. The problem with her seems to be caused by her issues, not yours. But keep trying. Her parents' kindness is reason for hope.
Bonus comment from the comments: When an excuse like that is offered, but not the reason behind it. Chances are, there was no hurtful thing said. And, if you did say something, how did that spread to the "culprits" icing out the entire family? I had a friend who's brother's wife did the same cr*p. Excuse was that the mother and sister in law did or said something. Despite the passing of 5 years, no explanation of just what was said every came out. Most likely because it was bull-chips. And that witch who iced out the family is lovey-dovey with her own family, takes them on trips, visits them with the kids, and has her husband on a leash. Disgraceful that the son disrespects his mom and sister so much .... just to appease his witchy wife
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/dearannie/s-2507345
3. Dear Amy: My adult sons are so estranged from my ex-husband that neither invited him to their weddings.
While I still have difficult feelings toward my ex, I try to have some level of civil interaction with him.
He often asks for updates as to what our sons are up to and how they are doing.
He is their father, and it seems to me that he has a right to know at least a bit about what is going on in their lives.
Is it inappropriate for me to share general information, such as buying a house or changing jobs or is that something that only they should share?
Since they want no contact with him, without some information from me he would have virtually no knowledge of them.
While I do hope that at some point my sons' feelings toward their father will soften, I have never pushed them to have more interactions with him.
Still, it does seem sad to me that he should not be able to have any knowledge of what is going on in their lives.
He rarely tries to contact them, although I know he has reached out in the past.
I don't pass along anything I would think of as a confidence. But sharing some basics doesn't seem wrong to me.
Am I off base?
– Unsure
Dear Unsure: You don’t say why your sons want no-contact with their father (and perhaps you don’t know), but this is an issue you should run past your sons.
What might seem like benign “general knowledge” to you might strike them as private and intrusive.
As it is your compassion toward your ex-husband is commendable, but you seem to be placing his desires and “rights” over those of your sons.
You could use this as an attempt to build a rickety bridge between all of these men: “Dad often asks about you; I don’t want to violate your privacy, so I want to make sure it’s OK if I share very general knowledge with him – just to let him know the basics?”
– Respect their decisions.
https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/askamy/s-2510044?fs
no subject
1. There is no doubt in my mind that the post-assault comment was one of many, many slights and insults and probable acts of abuse that SIL endured at the hands of her mother - a woman who knows damn well why her daughter doesn't like her. Amy's advice is surprisingly sound, though I would've included the note that LW1 should remain cordial but distant from MIL, and keep a close eye out for grandparental favoritism.
2. It is entirely possible that both LW2 and Commenter are speaking about people whose spouses are, in fact, controlling and abusive. Sure. But if that's the case, you'd think they'd have more sympathy.
In LW2's case, I think it's clear that whatever they did wrong - which they were absolutely told about! - it has something to do with how they treated Granddaughter.
3. LW3 is going to disregard this perfectly reasonable advice, count on it, and the end result is that the sons will cut them off too, and justly so.
no subject
1. Yeah, LW shouldn't disclose what SIL has said, but encourage her to get help and to speak to LW's hubs about it, particularly if the relationship between hubs and the SIL is strained.
But that mother's response? HOO BOY.
2. ...
" Please encourage others to forgive and reconcile. Life is too short to allow bitterness to fester and relationships to be destroyed."
LOL. "others". LW, I'm questioning if you don't know the cause or if you just don't want to share the cause because it makes you look bad. Causality is a major thing in human reasoning, and there is literally no such thing as "I have no idea" - you have an idea, you just haven't shared it. Also: daughters in law are not vending machines into which you put persistent attention and demand reciprocity from. Your son is still in contact with the kids, even if DIL doesn't like you. Learn contentment with what you have and compromise.
And that extra comment? HOO BOY. I smell someone else with in-law issues.
3. Ah yes, the people who think that parents have a right to know about their children, even after the children are adults... If LW's sons are adults, then they have the right to self-determination as human beings separate and individual from their parents. Including the father thay don't want to see and who is circumventing the limits his sons have put on his interaction by asking his ex to dish the dirt.
HOO BOY.
(I'm feeling dark and depressing tonight. Don't mind me.)
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I initially read LW2 as one of the cases where it could be missing reasons or could be that daughter in law sucks, but on reread I saw "not allowed to know our granddaughter's cell number" and 😳.
If granddaughter is old enough to have a cell phone, she is old enough to find her grandmother's number and contact her. And if she hasn't, then LW2 has done or said something.
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Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I always read the subtext like this: "It is right and proper that I should make the rules. If someone else dares to try to make a rule that applies to me, then my rights have been trampled and I have every right to ignore that rule, or to escalate, until I am given the respect (i.e. deference and obedience) that is mine by right."
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1 - I do wish this had advice on what to do if SIL doesn't want LW's husband to know anything. It's a tough spot for LW to basically have to lie to her husband about her husband's own family. I would probably advise LW to tell SIL she doesn't want to lie to her husband, but also doesn't want to break SIL's confidence, and ask what she can tell him that's short of lying, even if it's just something like "I'm sure SIL has her reasons and isn't ready to share them." But even if sister is ready to disclose even that much, it would be hard for it to not come off as telling husband "I have a more trusting relationship with your sister than with you," or as telling SIL "my marriage is more important than your trauma". So I don't have any better advice for that outcome, but I wish I did.
2 - I don't know why commenter's SIL cut off contact with MIL, but I think I know why she cut off contact with the commenter!!
3 - I think Amy absolutely has the correct advice here. Step one is asking the sons what they're comfortable with. And then I was going to write something about how I do think it's a fair question to ask, if the information you're sharing is something a distant acquaintance might know anyway; "A graduated college and B joined the Marines and C is in jail for murder" is the kind of idle news I might share about, like, my half-second-cousins-once-removed, and it does feel weird to think I would feel okay telling him basic news about his sons' second cousins but not about his sons.
But then I got caught up wondering - LW, why are you still in a place where you might share news about second cousins with this guy anyway? Clearly it's not for the kids. Why do you try to have civil interactions with him? The kids are married, at this point he could just be some guy you used to know and haven't talked to since the kids turned 18, you don't have to keep it up just out of habit. You aren't obligated to pick up the phone at all. If he's just using you to try to get information his sons don't want to share, your best bet is to end the civil interactions, like your sons did, and the question won't come up anymore. He absolutely doesn't have a right to his ex-wife's attention or civility once you're not coparents of minors anymore.
If it's more complicated than that - if you still have legal obligations between you, or if your difficult feelings are more mixed than you're making out, or if you both live in the kind of small community where you can't *not* have a relationship with him - then you should definitely make sure your sons know you're still talking to him, and why, and get some clarity on what he might hear about them from you. But first you should probably figure out why you're talking to him at all.
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