Two letters to infuriate everyone

[conuly]

Dear Annie: I'm having some issues with a friend.

We are polar opposites politically, and it is now causing problems. I dislike one side, which happens to be her side -- and she dislikes the other, which happens to be mine. I read many sources of news, including from overseas, and don't rely on one source only.

While on the phone, she railed against a prominent newspaper that I like, saying that she would "pray for them."

When I sent my friend an article in support of the paper's position, she refused to read it. Her views are one-sided, and she refuses to read anything contrary.

Though I try to not talk about current events, she'll throw in her comments and will leave me so aghast, it's difficult to respond in any way, as I'm left speechless.

Do I pull the plug on this friendship? I wonder how we can continue as friends as I don't respect her views and we have many differing ideals. All I can feel is anger. -- Friends?

Dear Friends: You can certainly continue your friendship with her. If we all shared the same views on everything, then what a boring, robotic place we would live in. Try to examine why you feel so angry when someone doesn't share your views. The world could do with more understanding; why not start with yourself?

As for your friendship, make a pact with your friend that you will agree to disagree on world affairs and promise to stop bringing up politics to each other. If she refuses, or if she agrees and then keeps making cracks, then it is not the politics that separate you so much as her lack of respect for your request. Of course, this means that you can't initiate political commentary either.

https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/dearannie/s-2404052

~~~~~~~~

DEAR NATALIE: I have tried to talk to my family about racism. We are white. I have tried to explain to them that dismantling racism starts at home. We need to talk to our children about this. But my brother and his wife are really fighting with me on this point. They don’t think it is appropriate that I recently talked to their kids (who are 10 and 12) about the Black Lives Matter movement. But, their kids asked me about it. They aren’t dumb. They see and hear everything going on. My sister-in-law thinks it isn’t “mentally healthy” for their kids to be “exposed” to these issues which they think have been “blown out of proportion.” We were at my brother’s last weekend for dinner and ended up in a big argument about this. The weird part is, we are all (pretty much) on the same page politically, but yet, they don’t feel that I should be so vocal. I am really frustrated with them both and now things are tense. Clearly I don’t want to fight, but if we don’t share these things with our children, how will anything change? Any advice on how to help my brother and sister-in-law come to terms with this? — TALK ABOUT IT

DEAR TALK ABOUT IT: This is a challenging time for many people who have never had to address racism in their homes or in their own hearts. The truth of it is, Black and non-white people have had to have these difficult conversations about the impact of racism with their children for years. Your sister-in-law trying to shield her children from the conversation of racism is an illustration of white privilege. Avoiding this talk, no matter how defensive they may be, while others are suffering and dying from the actual effects of racism helps no one. I would suggest some age-appropriate books for their children like “Harbor Me” by Jacqueline Woodson and “Just Mercy (Adapted for Young Adults): A True Story of the Fight for Justice” by Bryan Stevenson. I would also recommend “How to be an Antiracist” by Ibram X. Kendi for your brother and sister-in-law to help them along their journey. Your relationship might be tense right now because you are growing and learning at different rates, but that is something you don’t have control over. Much of racism is rooted in self-interest, in a fear of losing something, in a fear of recognizing yourself in someone else. It takes time and it is up to everyone to do their part. Start with yourself. This work is continuous and it is not an easy road. You can’t force anyone to do this work, so just be an example by continuing the work yourself. Continue to speak out. Educate and embrace. Shaming won’t help, but open and vulnerable conversations might. A little empathy can go a long way. Remind them that whether they want to talk to their kids about this or not, it is naive to think that their children aren’t getting an education about racism from other places. At this point, wouldn’t they want to have some control over that narrative? There can be joy in letting go of what divides us and instead celebrate our differences. It may sound cliche, but we are stronger together. This outlook can change not only our personal beliefs on what it means to be human, but systemically, we can then create a more equitable and peaceful world for everyone to have an opportunity to not just survive, but thrive.

https://www.uexpress.com/ask-natalie/2020/9/2/ask-natalie-unable-to-grieve-for (DO NOT GO THERE AND READ THE COMMENTS!)

Comments

[conuly]

1: Hey, Annie, maybe LW is angry because their supposed 'friend' keeps bringing up bigoted viewpoints and inane conspiracy theories whenever LW asks them how they're doing or what TV they've watched lately or whatever. Maybe we can't all agree to disagree, because some of us believe that everybody is equal and some of us believe that Jews control the weather, and these are incompatible beliefs.

2. LW's brother and SIL can drop dead with their bullshit. And so can all the commenters.

[minoanmiss]

WORD and also WORD.

I have grown to HATE the whole "of course we can agree to disagree" thing. It's really difficult to be friends with someone who thinks either your other friends aren't human or that a group you belong to isn't human but you're the exception. I really hope someone with more energy than I have points this out to Annie.

And the second one made me laugh bitterly. I wish someone could tell SIL that kids of color have to deal with racism, and occasionally* die of it, at the age of her precious sheltered babies. LW, you rock.

*: modulo reporting, after all.

[shirou]

First letter—You can have complicated friendships where you choose when and how to challenge your friend’s beliefs, but if your friend is constantly railing against sane viewpoints and “praying for” political opponents, it will be exhausting. This friendship sounds doomed.

Second letter—I have talked to my kids, ages 8 and 4, about how to be anti-racist. LW’s older nieces and/or nephews certainly can handle it. Make their parents mad if that’s the only way. Some things are worth making people angry over.

[ashbet]

Yep. Human rights are not up for “debate,” and sheltering white kids from the horrors of racism only furthers white privilege.

[ex_flameandsong751]

1st letter:

Before we had a literal fascist wannabe dictator get into the White House, I would have agreed to disagree with friends of a different political persuasion, like friends who voted for Romney when I voted for Obama. After what I've seen over the last four years, I believe that anyone who voted for Trump and still supports him** actually wants me dead (I'm disabled and on a fixed income and in a high-risk group for COVID; I'm queer and transgender). So no, I can't "agree to disagree" with someone who voted for this man, who is very probably going to take away the only source of income I have if re-elected, completely mishandled a pandemic that is still happening and where I wonder if I'll still be alive in a year because if I catch COVID I am probably going to die, and if I don't die and he gets re-elected I can look forward to liberal Supreme Court justices going away and being replaced with ones who absolutely will roll civil rights back to the 1950s. If someone is still supporting the Republican Party and their policies knowing everything I have to lose, they are not a friend of mine no matter what they say. I'm not sure that LW is in the same sort of situation I am (or that they're not, either, I try to not assume things), but even people in less disenfranchised groups who still have a conscience should be able to see that someone who supports Trump's brand of politics is not really "friend" material, because that would mean having a heart.

My mother is a Trump supporter, and would not stop talking about him incessantly even after I asked her not to, and do not bring up politics myself with her. The thing with a lot of these people is they're zealots. They talk about Trump the way fundamentalists talk about Jesus Christ. They have to argue with you constantly to try to "convert" you. There is no "agree to disagree" with people like this.


**Although even with people who might have voted for him and regret it, I don't know how anyone couldn't have seen this shit in 2016. When he finally said he was going after Social Security, my reaction was pretty much "told you so". So I'm not necessarily buying the "I didn't know he'd be this bad" from people who voted for him in 2016, he was already pretty bad then.

2nd letter:

I cut off members of my family for being bigoted assholes (if they didn't already stop talking to me for being queer and trans, anyway). While I feel for LW, I'm also really kind of like "why even bother with your brother". But I also understand the kids are a different subject.

I just... cannot fucking even with people who think Black Lives Matter is "blowing things out of proportion". If someone thinks black people getting murdered by police all the time is no big deal, they're fucking trash, I'm sorry.

[mommy]

1st letter:

There are areas in politics where it is appropriate to "agree to disagree." For example, there is room for discussion on whether it is acceptable to use the money from a local tax increase for school renovations on replacing a nice stadium with a fancy stadium (I voted for the increase because the middle school needs new air conditioners and industrial kitchen appliances). I cannot "agree to disagree" on human rights. My recommendation is to ditch the former friend and never look back.

2nd letter:

If the kids brought up the topic, then they already know enough to look things up themselves when their adults give them the runaround. The LW's brother and SIL are not doing their family any favors, here. There are kid-friendly ways to handle the topic of racism and police brutality even if it makes their parents uncomfortable.

[sara]

Some years ago, when Oldest Child was about, oh, seven or eight, we were in the South, staying with friends, and they asked what I was going to do for the day, and I said well, we have a late flight out of Atlanta so we're going to go visit the Martin Luther King museum and then maybe the Carter Center, but what I really want to do is go see Ebenezer Baptist Church, it would mean a lot to me to visit there.

My (white) friends were really taken aback that I would "take a child that young" to these places. I said well, the kid is pretty mature and familiar with civil rights issues and history, I don't think it will be a problem.

When I went to the museum, I realized that my kid was, by quite a bit, the youngest white kid at the museum. Every younger kid was there with a Black family.

It's an experience my kid, ten years or so later, still talks about in a way that...does not lead me to believe the child was traumatized.

[green_grrl]

LW1: Annie’s first paragraph is utter bullshit. LW is so angry because her friend won’t even deign to listen to her, but insists on spewing her garbage. The answer would have been better as a straightforward:
“When two people truly care about each other, they can either listen respectfully to each other’s viewpoints and try to find common points of agreement, or they can make a pact to never bring up political topics. Choice one is not working for you two. Ask her to join you in avoiding political talk. If (it sounds likely, when) she continues to share her views, know that you’ve tried everything you could to save this friendship but bow out.”

LW2: Brother and sister in law are assholes. The kids ASKED for information. Likely because they were getting little to no info from their parents. Good for Natalie for providing reading recs. (I have Caste out from the library right now.)

[minoanmiss]

beams Thank you for telling me about your trip with Oldest Kid.

[sara]

I mean, the long term consequence seems to have been that the kid marches on the capital and does a lot of community service so I'm not really getting the impression that any additional sheltering on my part was necessary....:-/

But yes white parent sheltering is such a thing even from leftists and so shortsighted.

[ioplokon]

I think the one point of precision I would want on the first letter is if this friend is engaged in garden variety trumper bullshit or if they're going full QAnon. In the latter case, it's a bit like knowing someone in a cult and sometimes you're like, their last remaining connection to this side of the looking glass (especially now that so many are laid off). And maybe holding a door open for them when they're ready to leave and continuing to gently prod them in the hopes they wake up is too damaging and hopeless to continue. But if not, then I think it helps to focus on the cultist angle than on 'agree to disagree'.