Boyfriend Disrespected by Ex-Wife

[conuly]

Dear Annie: What advice would you give to a divorced man regarding "moving on"? My boyfriend and his ex-wife have been divorced for 10 years, yet she continues to manipulate him and behave spitefully toward him. She and their adult children show no consideration for my boyfriend's wishes. And I see him do a lot of tiptoeing because God forbid he upset the "posse." He tried to establish that he'd like to see his adult children in settings other than his ex-wife's home, but that rarely happens. And he is expected to still go to her house for birthday gatherings.

He has made some minor changes, which I hope, for the sake of his sanity, he adheres to. I suggested that he seek counseling, but to no avail. He puts his foot down, but as soon as she says "sorry" once, he picks his foot back up and goes back for more of the same disrespectful treatment. It is completely absurd that he thinks he has a good relationship with his ex or even with his adult children. The kids show him no respect.

I have learned I can't change anyone but myself, but how do you coexist with someone who, because he feels guilty, keeps punishing himself? It's not my place to tell him what to do, I have learned through my own counseling. When I try to help him work through the many incidents that occur, he tells me that I'm biased because I "don't like them." What I don't like, Annie, are their actions. They show such disrespect, and if they can't respect their own father, really, whom are they going to respect?

Could he end up taking this nonsense until the day he dies? Will he ever free himself? I'm afraid that without counseling, he will never truly just put his foot down, say what he needs to and free himself of this abuse. Enough is enough! -- Anonymously Bewildered

Dear Anonymously Bewildered: The advice I would give to this man matters little if he's not the one who's asking. And there's the rub. You seem to recognize this -- you mentioned that you know you can't help anyone but yourself -- so I imagine your letter was written more out of exasperation than anything else. I certainly sympathize. It's frustrating to watch the people we love go through the same painful episodes again and again. But unless and until he himself decides that enough is enough, I'm afraid you're in for a lot of reruns. My advice to you, seeing as you're the one who wrote me, is to change the channel -- if not by ending the relationship, then by disengaging from his family drama. I strongly recommend that you continue going to counseling, because it sounds as though it's providing you helpful self-insight.

https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/dearannie/s-2385862

Comments

[conuly]

I'm not actually sure if a. either LW or Annie skipped over all the juicy details about the "abuse" Boyfriend suffers or b. it sums up to "the kids want to meet him at Mom's house only", but if it's b I have so many questions. Mostly they're "why". Why do they not want to meet with him at his house or some neutral location? (Do they still live with Mom?) Why does LW frame the decisions of his adult children as the result of his ex-wife's manipulation and "spite"? Why does LW talk so much about "respect" and so little about "affection" or "caring"? (And why does LW think that you must respect your father to respect anybody else?) If it is the case that the kids don't respect Dad (or love him), why not?

Also, maybe it's me, but unless the context is very clear that the other party is abusive, I have a very negative reaction to people who claim they're being asked to "tiptoe" or "walk on eggshells". It's not fair, perhaps, but I tend to think those people are lying.

[minoanmiss]

" people who claim they're being asked to "tiptoe" or "walk on eggshells"."

That's a phrasing I've often seen from people who, after abusing their victim/s for a long time, finally faced the least resistance and/or anger from their victim/s.

[conuly]

Yup, that's exactly why my reaction is generally extremely negative. It's absolutely true that (really) having to watch everything you say or do is a red flag for abuse, and that checklists about abuse feature it, often with the exact phrase "walking on eggshells". It's also true that the people I most often encounter saying it, including in reported speech, are not the victims in the relationship.

[lemonsharks]

yeah, I've heard it so often from my parents that I'm use it as a litmus test for people I want to have a friendship--or even a conversation--with.

If not-screaming and posturing threateningly is so very hard for my frood to do, then that's a them problem, not a me problem.

Any hey, sometimes the entire way a person conducts themself IS irreparably broken and needs to be burned to the ground and rebuilt from scratch. That is also a them-problem.

[ex_flameandsong751]

It's not just you. *Most* of the people I've personally encountered who use that specific wording are usually the abusers rather than the victims, to the point where I start to see that specific wording as a dogwhistle. Sure, it is absolutely true that a red flag in abusive relationships is having to watch one's tone / words / etc, but it's also absolutely true that a lot of abusers spin it as their victim is the one having over-the-top / inappropriate reactions.

[cereta]

Based on this conversation, I need to find a new way to describe certain situations.

[purlewe]

I agree. I feel like this is exactly how I would describe myself when I had a relationship with someone abusive. I was so passive it was beyond being a doormat. And so quiet many outside folks commented on how docile I was. I am sure my partners would have used the same phrase about me "walking on eggshells" around that relationship.

[cereta]

*nods* I...Okay, I should be careful, here, because this is one of those really complicated situations that people can easily misconstrue. My spouse is not, by nature, a happy guy. He struggles a lot with depression and anxiety, and it often manifests as irritability and even outright anger. And he is seldom angry at me, or at our daughter, but I'm usually the one in the room when he finally lets it out, and it's not fun. He has been working on coping techniques, and above all removing himself from the room/home when things are bad, but there are certainly times when the teen fanperson and I know not to engage him on anything more than, "can you hand me a glass, please?" I've described it as "walking on eggshells," but I think I need something that better conveys, "modulating our behavior to help him cope with his emotional state."

[purlewe]

Mine was with a parent. Now that I no longer let myself be steamrolled into submission I am told I am too aggressive. (I stand my ground about my boundaries. hence "aggressive") But I would rather be aggressive about my boundaries than being steamrolled. so be it.

[cereta]

After a night of having my boundaries spectacularly steamrolled by a sibling, I can appreciate that. For good or ill, I've let a lot of shit from my siblings stand, although what's sad is that it's mostly because I don't value their company enough to try to enjoy myself at our very few family gatherings, and wow, that's the first time I realized that in quite those words. I need to go think now.

[lemonsharks]

LW's boyfriend needs to learn to be OK with people being upset, and not-ok with people treating him like garbage.

The good news about the kids being grown is that he can be honest about any antipathy toward his ex. "Why would I be worried about upetting your mom? I haven't loved her for years, and I don't like her now. Most days I don't think about her at all."

But the boyfriend didn't write for advice. All the LW can do is slowly chip away at years of misformed expectations the ex set, by telling him that abusive behaviors (name the behavior) aren't normal, and that doing X to another person isn't OK, and by offering praise and support and reality checks when the need for them comes up.

The two of them may also want to host events for the kids at their place, and pay for the kids' rideshare or run pickup/dropoff if they're still living at their mom's.

[eva_rosen]

If the children's mom has to see the ex for their children's sake, it makes sense (though doesn't make it ok) that she acts ticked off all the time. Maybe there's reasons LW is not aware of that makes the children, even now as adults, not OK with being with their dad without their mother present and she relents to preserve the contact? It could be they're just difficult, but it sounds odd.