movingfinger: (Default)
movingfinger ([personal profile] movingfinger) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2020-02-11 10:25 am

Dear Prudence: My advisor is angry that I'm leaving academia

Dear Prudence: I will have my Ph.D. this summer (in a humanities field). Despite graduating with a decent publication record (three articles and three book chapters, along with a dozen or so leading conference presentations), routinely high CIFs, and connections to a well-respected private university, I do not have a tenure-track job offer lined up. Over the past year, my mother’s health has declined suddenly and dramatically. She may have one or two years left to live, if she’s lucky, and she certainly cannot work. Moreover, the family is already deeply in debt over medical bills—with more on the way—and, thanks to state cuts to Pell Grants, three of my younger brothers are delaying their plans to attend college.

I have decided to transition out of the academy. The jobs simply aren’t there any longer. I’ve also been offered a lucrative job with a philanthropic organization near my parents’ home. My dissertation adviser is a truly extraordinary woman who’s invested in me professionally and personally. She took the news badly and said, essentially, that she regrets the extent of her mentorship and support. My school’s graduate program is quite selective, and I understand that I took someone else’s position, someone who could have gone on to contribute to the field. I already feel enormously guilty for taking up so much time and so many resources. But I also know that the academic life isn’t for me. I’m simply not willing to spend the last years of my mother’s life chasing tenuous opportunities across the country, uprooting my life and my partner’s every year, and putting my life on hold in the hopes that a dream job materializes somewhere. How do I communicate the news to my colleagues, many of them dear friends, without losing their respect or disappointing them as deeply as I did my adviser?

A: Release yourself from the burden of trying to make sure your colleagues don’t experience disappointment. Tell them your news, acknowledge the difficulty of your decision and your excitement over being able to take a job that will help you make ends meet and care for your family, and let the rest go. Hopefully they will be able to handle any subsequent disappointment with more tact and grace than your adviser did. But even if they don’t, you can’t place your own future at risk chasing a job that may very well never appear when you have the opportunity to support yourself right now.
angelofthenorth: Two puffins in love (Default)

[personal profile] angelofthenorth 2020-02-11 06:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Just cos you can't do it now doesn't mean the door is closed forever. Your advisers attitude is not your problem.
cereta: Cartoon of Me, That's Doctor Fangirl to you. (Doctor Fangirl)

[personal profile] cereta 2020-02-11 07:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Especially if LW considers venues other than four-year, Research 1 universities. Not that community college jobs are thick on the ground, either, but if LW is actually interested in teaching (as opposed to research) and wants stability, they could do worse than keeping an eye on the CCs in driving distance of her mother.
melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)

[personal profile] melannen 2020-02-11 11:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Also just because you are working outside a university doesn't mean you can't "contribute to the field", omg! This is what's wrong with academia.

I have to wonder if the advisor isn't facing some kind of external pressure to keep their graduates in the field - "most of our PhDs leave academia" probably doesn't look great on their stats.
cereta: Cartoon of Me, That's Doctor Fangirl to you. (Doctor Fangirl)

[personal profile] cereta 2020-02-11 11:17 pm (UTC)(link)
You would think, though, that, "Our degrees lead to jobs in multiple fields" would look good, though.
melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)

[personal profile] melannen 2020-02-11 11:41 pm (UTC)(link)
For a selective program at a top-tier private school, it probably doesn't look good, unfortunately. People want it to look like the program leads directly into tenure, because after all nothing else is important or useful. Another thing that's wrong with academia!
(deleted comment)
purlewe: (Default)

[personal profile] purlewe 2020-02-11 06:48 pm (UTC)(link)
yeah, in further responses a person actually advised the LW to keep quiet about their plans.


Q. Re: Exiting academe with grace: I hope this doesn’t sound overly dramatic but I’d also advise you to keep quiet about your plans until after you’ve defended your dissertation. You might even go so far as to tell your adviser that she has given you quite a bit to think about and you may reconsider. The reason I say this is that it seems like you haven’t had your defense yet. Don’t jeopardize that in any way. Don’t lie, but don’t discuss your plans again until after the defense is done.


A: That’s really helpful. Thank you. I had assumed it was only a series of formalities the letter writer had to get through before being formally presented with their Ph.D., but if there’s any chance they could still be denied out of resentment, then I think you’re right and not being overly dramatic at all. Do what you have to do to ensure you receive your degree; you don’t owe any of your colleagues information about your future plans as you try to support yourself and exit a field that has no sustainable employment for you.
cereta: Cartoon of Me, That's Doctor Fangirl to you. (Doctor Fangirl)

[personal profile] cereta 2020-02-11 07:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I mean...it's been my experience that in the humanities, the defense is kind of a formality in that a good committee won't let you do one until they're ready to pass you with at most minor revisions, but never underestimate an academic's capacity for pettiness.
the_rck: (Default)

[personal profile] the_rck 2020-02-13 12:30 am (UTC)(link)
My step-father's advisor delayed his defense by several years. She felt that, since he wasn't working in her lab any more, helping him didn't benefit her at all. It was extremely petty because he had to keep paying tuition even though all he still had left was the defense. He got a tenure track position from a university that assumed the defense would happen during the first semester he taught there.

At this point, he's tenured at a third school, but the whole thing was kind of nightmarish.
lavendertook: (reading)

[personal profile] lavendertook 2020-02-11 06:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Your advisor's attitude is a good confirmation that you are making absolutely the right decision, LW. The humanities are supposed to help you become more "humane". Your advisor failed that test spectacularly--a lot of them do. Don't sweat telling your other colleagues. Take care of you and your humane priorities.
minoanmiss: Theran girl gathering saffron (Saffron-Gatherer)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2020-02-11 07:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Wow, that advisor has a serious rectocranial inversion. What a cruel response, especially but not least to someone with a dying family member.
beable: (Default)

[personal profile] beable 2020-02-11 07:35 pm (UTC)(link)

Oh you beat me to posting this.
What a toxic, tunnel-visioned perspective the LW's adviser has.

heavenscalyx: (Default)

[personal profile] heavenscalyx 2020-02-11 09:51 pm (UTC)(link)
OMG, take the job, run. Lie to your advisor to get through your defense. Then run.

WTF, advisor? If you don't know that TT jobs are nonexistent for anyone outside the sciences right now, you're completely out of touch. You should be happy as hell that one of your advisees has a good job -- ANY good job -- that will let them do what they need to family-wise!

Jesus Harriet Christ, Adjunct Instructor, some people.
jadelennox: Postmodernity is Virtually Critique-Proof (pomo: critique proof)

[personal profile] jadelennox 2020-02-11 11:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I've got multiple friends in stem fields whose advisors yelled at them when they left academia, but there are jobs in stem fields. (it was still a dick move., obviously.) Non-adjunct jobs in the humanities, compared to the number of newly minted PhDs on the market, are an utterly demoralizing ratio, and adjunct jobs rarely pay a living wage. And advisor who yells at a humanities PhD for leaving academia isn't just an asshole, they're also delusional.
heavenscalyx: (Default)

[personal profile] heavenscalyx 2020-02-12 03:14 am (UTC)(link)
WTF, stem field advisors? Just envious of the corporate salaries and lack of having to write grants with your every breath?
akamarykate: (Default)

[personal profile] akamarykate 2020-02-12 01:35 am (UTC)(link)
My sister is a tenured professor in a humanities field, and right now her job is in jeopardy because the college itself is flailing financially--and they aren't even making plans for the absolute drop-off in the student pool that's going to happen at the end of this decade (the birthrate plummeted during the 2008 recession). She can see what's coming, and looked into going "on the market" to find another job, but the thing is, nearly every college and university in the US is a similar boat right now. There are no more guaranteed tenured jobs in the humanities, not unless the institutions are lying to themselves and their applicant pools.

LW has what sounds like the perfect job lined up (especially since they know now that they don't want the academic life). They haven't taken someone else's place; they've used an opportunity to learn and they've already contributed to the field. PhD advisors are notoriously good at projecting their own issues onto their advisees and otherwise messing with their heads; I used to tell anyone who wanted to go into graduate programs that they needed to get into counseling and deal with whatever issues they have before starting grad school because it will exacerbate all your mental health issues (and I should know; I have two grad degrees and the neuroses to prove it). Now I just tell them to think at least twice and twice again before spending the money at all.

So I'm basically echoing what others are already saying. Keep it to yourself, smile and nod, take the degree, and run with no regrets. You have put in your time, made important contributions, and kept your advisors employed and engaged with the field. In a year or two, I have every faith that you will be able to look back with zero regrets.
mommy: Wanda Maximoff; Scarlet Witch (Default)

[personal profile] mommy 2020-02-12 02:10 am (UTC)(link)
One thing that needs to be clear is that you did not take someone else's position in your school's graduate program. You took your position, and you have turned that position into a stepping stone into a lucrative job in a field where employment is more than just a pipe dream. Congratulations!

As for academia, my advice is to keep your head down, do whatever needs to be done to keep the peace, get your degree, and get out. You already know that there's no future for you in academia, but there's no need to burn every bridge*, either.

* even if burning bridges with your dissertation adviser sounds like an absolutely wonderful idea
melissatreglia: (bugs bunny - slice of heaven)

[personal profile] melissatreglia 2020-02-12 04:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Fuck that noise, LW. Your mother doesn't have long left, so being with her (and the rest of your family) takes priority over your petty AF advisor's hurt feelings.

You do your thing and go be with your loved ones. Anybody who takes umbrage at you spending quality time with your sick mum (and getting into a job that keeps you close and pays the medical bills) needs a 2x4 applied directly to the forehead.

And seriously, that's fantastic that you found a good job in philanthropy. You'll be doing your part to help a lot of people. So the up-their-own-ass eggheads trying to guilt-trip you can get rekt.
liv: ribbon diagram of a p53 monomer (p53)

[personal profile] liv 2020-02-12 05:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Wow, I'm so angry with this student's advisor. Graduating into a well-paid job doing something worthwhile is an ideal outcome for a PhD student. And the advisor will benefit from her student's publication record too. Even without the very serious family issues, LW is making an excellent decision and should be praised for it.

My first PhD student dropped out. She didn't finish her dissertation, and she took two years of dithering and promising she'd get things back on track to actually, properly drop out. Unlike this advisor, I'm not extraordinary, and a "failed" PhD student at that stage of my career was a major contributor to ending my own academic dreams. But at no point was I ever angry with my student. I was completely supportive in helping her secure a really good job that didn't technically require a PhD but used most of the skills she'd learned while training with me. Nobody was happier than I was when my student landed a non-academic job that will hopefully lead to a fulfilling career and more importantly, fit in with her own personal life at that point far better than sacrificing everything for the piece of paper.

Honestly, this letter is itself a really good argument for getting out of the academic rat race at the first opportunity.
ioplokon: purple cloth (Default)

[personal profile] ioplokon 2020-02-12 06:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Lol nope fuck that. Academics need to understand that their work is just that, fucking work. Only a mark for capitalism feels bad about leaving a job with no future and security for one that offers both. Only a mark for academia feels bad about getting out when it makes sense.

I know advisors invest a lot of personal and professional capital in their students but like... Imagine being mad that someone didn't want to spend the next 5 years going from post doc to post doc.