People without unusual food restrictions have such weird entitlement complexes

[conuly]

DEAR ABBY: Some of my extended family members have become vegan. When they come to my home, I make sure to have appropriate food for them, in addition to nonvegan food for others. When I am invited to their homes for a celebration, they offer only vegan selections. No one is allowed to bring nonvegan or meat-based dishes to their home.

It has reached the point that I no longer want to go there when a meal is involved. I have tried talking to them about this, but their reply is, No meat allowed in our home. I now leave before mealtime because I don't like a lot of their dishes.

Is it common for vegans to prohibit guests from ever taking other food into their home? Thanks for any light you can shed on this. -- MEAT LOVER IN HOUSTON

DEAR MEAT LOVER: People become vegans for a variety of reasons. Some do because they feel it is unethical to kill animals for food. Others do it because they feel raising animals for slaughter is harmful to the planet. People also become vegans for health reasons.

Individuals who adopt this way of life often feel as your relatives do, and that's their privilege. If it impinges on your freedom or limits your enjoyment of these celebrations, forgo them and either participate in get-togethers that don't include food or go to an accommodating restaurant.

https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/dearabby/s-2299822

Comments

[conuly]

First of all, LW, you're not fooling anybody. You don't want Abby to "shed light on this", you want her to tell you that you're right. I don't know what you thought would happen if she did, because your relatives are hardly going to be swayed by your little advice column gotcha, but let's not mince words.

Secondly, you're not right! You presumably ARE allowed to bring vegan food when you visit these relatives. You've chosen not to do so because your desire to eat meat (cheese, eggs) is greater than your desire to share a meal with your family, and you've convinced yourself that nothing is worth eating if it doesn't have animal products in it somewhere. So be it, but that's on you. Your food desires are not more important than their food restrictions. You cannot bring ham to a Jewish or Muslim friend's home just because that's what you like to eat. You cannot bring alcohol to the home of a Muslim or Mormon or recovering alcoholic just because that's what you like to drink. And you can't just unilaterally declare that because you deign to make a couple of vegetable sides when you invite your friends over, they now have to let you bring burgers to their home!

And if this LW was going "I eat insects/horse/cat at every meal, why can't I do that when I visit my friends?" then nobody would defend them. Those are all perfectly normal food choices in other cultures, but they're "weird" to Americans.

[lilysea]

Yeah, unless LW is "for health reasons I have to eat high-protein/low carbohydrate[1] AND I am allergic to nuts and eggs", they don't NEED to have meat at every meal.

If they do need to eat high-protein/low carb AND are allergic to nuts and eggs, then... it would be ok to talk to the vegans about it and say "these are my access needs because [reasons], my options are
a) I eat before I come
b) we eat at my house
c) we eat at a restaurant that caters to both of us
d) I bring meat to your house
which option(s) would you prefer?"

but, after asking politely ONCE, LW should have to graciously accept their boundaries and not argue.

[1] unfortunately for people with these needs, lentils and chickpeas are too high-carb. I say this as a long term vegetarian with hypoglycemia who has been lectured about this by many, many dietitians.

[conuly]

Note: Eggs are also not vegan, of course.

[ambyr]

My observation as someone who has a “no alcohol in my home” rule is that many people take these sorts of rules as a personal attack on them (“I’m not an alcoholic! How dare you imply that!”). I suspect something similar may be going on here—that LW feels their vegan relatives’ rule is secretly a way of saying, “We think you are bad people for eating meat.”

If the vegan relatives are not otherwise judgemental (and they apparently keep coming to LW’s omnivorous events without making a fuss) my advice for the LW would probably be to remind themselves repeatedly that the vegan relatives have never said anything about LW eating meat in other locations and to recite to themselves quietly, as many times as necessary, “It’s not about me. It’s not about me. It’s not about me.”

[ayebydan]

this

[shirou]

LW has arrived at a reasonable solution. You can’t bring non-vegan food to a vegan household, but if you don’t enjoy eating there—don’t.

[conuly]

Certainly. I only start rolling my eyes when they start whining about it - and I'm sorry, writing to Dear Abby definitely constitutes whining.

[cereta]

Am I the only one boggled that the LW can't make something vegan to bring that she'll enjoy? Roast some potatoes or other vegetables! Make a salad with nuts or something! Good lord.

[resonant]

Wonder if it would shock them to learn that most tortilla chips are vegan? They might be shocked to learn that they've been involved in this communistic heathen lifestyle all along.

[lemonsharks]

I want to push back gently on the idea that veganism, especially ethics-driven veganism, isn't a moral judgment. If a vegan believes that consuming animal products is immoral and unethical, then they do in fact believe that the LW is immoral and unethical for consuming animal products. It is not equivalent to "don't bring alcohol to a dry household" or "don't bring ham to a Jewish or Muslim household."

I think we're being overly harsh on the LW for not liking vegan food. What they can and can't eat-- what they do or don't enjoy eating-- is their business, and we should take them at their word that they have tried and don't like vegan food.

I say that as both a former sanctimonious vegetarian and a reformed foodie evangelist.

Also, people get really weird when one person isn't eating at a meal.

My take is that the LW is within their rights to tell their relative to either let them bring something they can eat or stop inviting them over for dinner. Or to continue in their current good solution of leaving before the food comes out.

[onlysmallwings]

hard agree.

We are a social species. We like sharing meals with people we like. If LW can't eat the food served at their vegan relatives' houses, they're not wrong to be sad about it. Either bringing their own food or bailing before food time are valid options.

[minoanmiss]

I was thinking about this all morning (it beats thinking about work). I mostly agree, but I would feel unethical about making the vegans have non-vegan food in their own space. (Honestly, i'm relieved this letter isn't about "some of my relatives became vegan and whenever they come to dinner at my house they loudly disparage the non-vegan food and its diners at length even though I've provided them vegan food.") I definitely think the best solution involves the vegans making the effort to create ways to see their relative that don't involve food.

Also, this reminds me of one of the few pieces of good advice my mother told me: "When going to an event, eat first."

[lemonsharks]

I don't see such an ethical dilemma, myself, though I do think it's very kind to take that additional, non-required step at accommodating one's hosts.

I see, "Either let me bring food I can eat or stop inviting me to food-things" not as making/pressuring the vegans to have animal products in their house, but as clearly stating needs and boundaries. The need is to have food they can eat at a food thing and the related boundary is that they don't want to be invited to a food thing where they can't eat.

They're not, to paraphrase some comments to the thread, being picky eaters at their vegan relatives. And their relatives are free to say, "Thank you for the heads up. We won't invite you to food-things at our place anymore, but we look forward to seeing you in other places!"

((And it would definitely be rude of the LW to bring something like a smoked brisket over, rather than, like, a sandwich of indeterminate filling and paper plate to eat it on.))

[ayebydan]

Are religions not based on thoughts and morals though? And should everyone not be respectful regardless? I'm an atheist but I'm not going to be an arsehole and take foods certain religious friends don't want to eat/can't eat/feel forbidden to eat into their homes. I'm not going to shove my bag of haribo under my Muslim boss's nose. You shouldn't shove your mozarella sticks under a vegan's nose either. It is about being a decent human on our end rather than what we think of theirs.

[lemonsharks]

OK, 1, I have never "shoved (food) under (anyone's) nose" nor did I suggest it and 2, you're deliberately misrepresenting what I said here and I don't like it.

Please revisit my advice to the letter writer:

• Continue doing what you're doing by leaving before the meal -- that's a good solution.

• Tell your relatives to either let you bring food you can eat to food-things or to stop inviting you to food-things where you have nothing to eat

Surprisingly, the vegans have the agency and autonomy necessary to not invite the LW to food-things where LW has nothing to eat. Because they're grownass adult human beings who should have some experience interacting with other grownass adult human beings by now.

[ayebydan]

I certainly did not intend to do that.

I still think that Lw is on a high horse and needs to get off it stat. They come across as very much 'I could eat that but I'm going to be an ass that my friend doesn't want to buy things they don't find ethical' They already know they can just not go. They are the ones that suggested it first. At no point does LW say they hate everything presented and/or are allergic.

[lemonsharks]

It read that way to me. I'm glad you were acting in good faith and appreciate that.

I think what we have here is a straight up disagreement: I do not believe the vegans are being reasonable, based on my experience with (many, oh god so many) vegans with similar boundaries. Every vegan I have encountered who goes so far as to have "no non-vegan food may pass my threshold" as a house have been sanctimonious and evangelical about their diets, and I believe this is good reason to assume the same of the LW's vegan friends/family.

[ayebydan]

Fair enough. I've had better run ins with vegans I guess. Much more 'do what you do but in my house please do as I do'. Then when out for shared meals we'd find a place that gave them more than one vegan option but they wouldn't blink if I ordered a steak. Apart from one friend....come to think of it he was more the sort you seem to know.

[eva_rosen]

General rule on food issues: you don't like to/can't eat the food offered, don't. Host shouldn't make a fuss if you tell them why either, and 'I just don't like to eat that' is a perfectly valid reason. I don't eat salt; it's not for medical reasons, I got used to it having to accomodate my grandfather's blood pressure issues and now it tastes awful to me. If someone's eating at my house, tough luck. If I'm eating at someone else's house and they don't want to make a separate, saltless meal for me, I can't eat it, sorry. Neither are they dicks for not taking extra work for me, it's not like I will starve if I wait to eat at home.

[minoanmiss]

This is absolutely sensible. But if people were sensible advice columnists would be out of business!

[melannen]

I think there is something going on here (which does seem to be fairly specific to certain types of vegans/vegetarians) where they expect everyone to accommodate their food preferences and they refuse to accommodate others'. If the letter writer is expected to make a special effort to have vegan food for them when she cooks, even though she doesn't eat it and doesn't enjoy cooking it and will likely have to buy ingredients she won't use otherwise, but they won't accommodate her preferences at all, even if she offers to do the cooking - then yeah, there's a politeness issue there, where one side of the relationship is expected to put in all of the effort, and I would resent it a bit, too.

I know plenty of people with major food restrictions who do, in fact, make a serious effort to have food that the people who are visiting them will enjoy, just as those people make an effort for them in reverse. If someone has major medical issues or is trying to keep a kosher kitchen or something, that's different, but that's not what's in the letter.

That *said*, LW does not at any point say that the vegan relatives actually asked her to make a special effort when they visit. My advice for this situation is that if the imbalance is really getting under your skin, tell them you can't do extra vegan food when they visit anymore. Most vegans are in fact aware that they are extra trouble, and will willingly and politely figure out what they can eat of your normal dishes (there's usually at least something, just as there's probably at least something on their table you can tolerate), or, as you do, leave before the meal.

[mathemagicalschema]

Yeah, on the one hand, as an omnivore, the foods I can eat are a superset of the foods that my vegan friends can eat. Although being vegan myself would wreck my health, there is in general no reason I can't eat any individual vegan meal, there are tons of vegan dishes I enjoy, and I am usually happy to accommodate my vegan friends when I cook.

At the same time... food is a deeply important part of culture? particularly for holiday celebrations? I have a lot of people in my life with significant dietary restrictions, and it kind of sucks to feel like I don't have people to share my food traditions with. I don't know that there's anything any of us really can (much less should) do about it, but it feels like people don't really get that. There are some dishes where it's easy to make a vegan alternative that scratches the same itch, but vegan baking, for instance, is just a completely different skillset from baking my grandma's recipes and tends to have very different results.