Dear Prudie: Kids staying over

[cereta]

Q. Bad Aunt? I Don’t Want My Nieces Staying Overnight: In a couple of weeks, my brother and his family (wife, two kids) are visiting the city where my husband and I live. They are unable to afford a hotel, so prior to booking the trip I informed my brother that our place isn’t set up for overnight guests. We live in a loft, and the only room with walls is our tiny bathroom. Fortunately they are able to stay with my brother’s friend. Then my brother mentioned via email—our usual means of communication—that it would be great if the kids could spend one night at our place. My husband and I are childless by choice, and it’s well-known that neither of us cares much for children. We of course love our nieces, though we don’t know them too well considering we see them maybe once a year for a day or two. On our last visit with them, one of the kids barely spoke a word to us, and the other is a teen whose only concern seems to be her phone. Neither my husband nor I is comfortable at the thought of having children as overnight guests. I told my brother this, and he finds it ridiculous that we are refusing to host his kids for a night. Am I a bad aunt for making such a decision?

A: You’re a bad aunt, but just embrace it. Lots of people are happy in their choice not to have children. But when you say you globally dislike all children, even your own nieces, because they’ve inevitably started out life as children, that makes you a bad aunt. You love them? Really? You don’t even want to know them. You’re offended that on the last visit they did nothing to charm you, but that’s generally how people, especially kids, react around others who have not only no interest in them but only contempt. (And no one should take personally a teenager’s focus on the phone.) You don’t want them to stay over, so just stick to that. However, maybe your brother and his wife would appreciate an afternoon or evening to themselves. So you could offer to take the kids to a museum, or a show, or a cool neighborhood. Keep your expectations low, and maybe these slowly emerging adults will surprise you.

Comments

[cereta]

I'm genuinely curious about people's reaction to this. I have two, no, three competing reactions, with their own "but, but...".

1. I generally believe people have a right to be comfortable in their own homes, so if something is going to compromise that, I'm agin' it. That said, ONE NIGHT doesn't seem like a long time to cope with something that is not your preference.

2. As you might guess, I have in the past been less than impressed with people who can't manage a kid, especially an older kid or an infant with parent, in their space because OMG KID. For a week? Sure, that's a hassle. For a night? Put on your big girl/boy panties and deal. THAT said, this isn't a case of the family needing a place to stay, just wanting the kids to sleep over (whether to get a date or because they want the kids to know their family). So I'm less put off than I was with the earlier post of this nature.

3. THAT THAT said, I am unimpressed with how the LW talks about the kids. I think Prudie's overly sarcastic about it, but being critical of kids for being stand-offish when they barely know the LW (and that's assuming they didn't pick up that the LW and husband didn't want them there, which is unlikely; kids know when people aren't interested in them) is both silly and self-centered. THAT THAT THAT said, as someone with siblings who aren't all that interested in her kid (they're not childfree, just very focused on their own kids), I think the LW should just say no, keep contact to a minimum, and be shocked, shocked I tell you, and write into Prudie again, when their adult nieces and nephews don't particularly want a relationship now that they're out of the dreadful child-zone.

[vass]

I'm guessing the LW was every bit as standoffish with the kids as they were with her, probably talked exclusively about things the kids knew nothing about, and made no attempt to include them in the conversation, then got all offended when the teenager immersed herself in her phone rather than sit there like an attentive block listening to her elders discuss the stock market or Woody Allen movies or whateverthefuck.

What did she expect, a tap routine?

[minoanmiss]

I find myself wondering if there's more to the story, like, LW's brother has been pressuring her to have kids for 20 years and thinks one night with children under her roof will cure her of her childfreeness. Or aybe her favorite artwork, a hand-made copy of "The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife", adorns the main wall of her loft and she has no closet big enough to stash it. Because if we have all the pertinent facts it seems a little ... intransignent to not want to host her nieces for one night in a year, and not even to offer the compromise Prudie suggested (I actually agree with Prudie, what the hell) of taking them out for an afternoon.

One night a week I can see balking at. But one night a year doesn't seem *that* onerous to me.

[cereta]

Or if the younger kid was a toddler or rambunctious, even. But her biggest complaint about them seems to be that they aren't all that interested in her, and all I can think is, why would they be?

[torachan]

Really? They are two people in a one-room apartment and that's not enough reason not to want two kids there, even for one night?

[minoanmiss]

Yeah? One kid in a blanket nest, one on the couch, and no one's even out of their bed.

[torachan]

Nah.

[cereta]

Nah, what? Why would that not work for one night? Plenty of college students manage to share smaller spaces, or even have overnight guests. I had overnight guests in a tiny shoebox of an efficiency. Again, for a week, I could get it, but for one night?

Look, if the LW says she doesn't want the kids there, that should be all there is to it. I agree with that. She doesn't need any reason other than that she doesn't want to. As long as she doesn't complain about her sibling and the sibling's family pulling back (and it doesn't sound like she would), then she should just go for it. But own it. The idea that they couldn't possibly because apartment is, at least as presented in the letter, questionable.

[torachan]

It's not that it couldn't possibly work for one night, but that it is a valid reason for it not to. No, we don't have all the information, so it's possible there could be some secret reason the letter writer doesn't want them coming over, like a painting or whatever, but the idea that it couldn't possibly be because they live in a small place and don't want two extra people is ridiculous. The person I was replying to said it couldn't possibly be that and there must be some hidden reason, which...nah. Some people just don't like being crowded, especially for no good reason, since it's not an emergency situation or anything.

Putting her foot down with her brother doesn't make her a bad aunt or a bad person. The brother is not entitled to get free lodging and childcare.

[cereta]

It doesn't make her a bad person. And I suppose it doesn't make her a bad aunt. I would say from her letter that she just isn't an aunt in any way but biology. Which is fine. She didn't choose to be an aunt. But I also don't think she gets to complain if it affects family dynamics.

ETA: I should also add that among the missing information in the letter is why the sibling requested that the kids sleep over. It could be wanting to have a grown-up night. It could be that one of the kids asked - maybe they like the apartment and that strange picture, who knows.

[cereta]

It's a loft with an open-floor design. We have no idea how big it is. And my brother and I stayed in my grandparents one-bedroom apartment all the time. We slept on the floor. Most kids love that.

[vass]

Or aybe her favorite artwork, a hand-made copy of "The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife", adorns the main wall of her loft and she has no closet big enough to stash it.

I like this idea.

And yeah, I am also wondering if there's more to the story, while still being unimpressed with how she described the kids.

[minoanmiss]

*nod* Family, man.

(I'm pleased at least one person liked that image. :D
I would totally have that painting on my wall if I could.)

[malnpudl]

My sympathies are with the letter writer. Nobody should be obligated to provide childcare services if they don't want to. All my relatives with kids knew better; it would never have occurred to any of us. There were plenty of other ways for me and those various kids to develop relationships with each other while under their parent's supervision, not mine.

My suggestion would be to offer to hire and pay for a sitter so the parents can have time to themselves. Everybody wins.

[cereta]

See, I don't think she should be required to do it, and I think she should just says no and be done so the parents will give up and not try to establish a relationship between their kids and the LW and husband not expect any assistance for him. Been there, done that.

It's not the babysitting part I object to. It's the way she justified it. I'll be honest: I don't have a high opinion of people being so actively averse to children, especially children who are past diapers and tantrums, that they would rather none ever darken their doorstep. But allowing for that quirk, the LW doesn't sound like she had ANY interest in getting to know these kids, or has made any effort to try, and I don't really believe the kids don't know that. And now she's complaining that they're stand-offish. Well, duh.

I find myself curious how the LW and husband will react when the girls pass the magical threshold of adulthood and have no interest in knowing their aunt and uncle (been there, done THAT, too).

[sathari]

Dissenting voice here: I feel like the childfree thing is almost a red herring or at least a side issue, given the layout of the LW's place: it's a loft with almost no private space--- a "tiny bathroom" is the only place for two girls, one of them an adolescent, to change clothes, etc., and there's no private sleeping space for them, which is awkward to say the least with a mixed-sex group (and depending on the family may be more awkward still because LW's husband is a relative-by-marriage and not by blood; their MMV, but that's a thing for some people.)

Also, the brother inviting part of his family over to LW's place when she's already said her home isn't set up for that particular kind of hosting is an ick for me, regardless of the ages of the individuals involved. But then I do not like people-not-me in my own home, so I am perhaps more sensitized around that issue than most.

[cereta]

If she had stopped there, I would be nodding along with her. But SHE brought up the childfree thing as a reason, and SHE complained about kids she doesn't appear to show much of an interest in not showing and interest in her. That bugs me, a lot.

[ellen_fremedon]

I thought the LW's mention of the nieces' disinterest sounded less judgy/blamey and more justificatory-- hastening to explain that the girls aren't any more interested in them than they are in the girls, so why should any of them go through the motions? Which seems like a pretty compelling argument to me-- if the nieces were eager to have a relationship and were being rebuffed, I might urge the LW to reconsider, but if none of them want that, the brother and sister-in-law shouldn't try to force it on them.

(And if they change their minds down the road, they can still get to know their nieces as adults. That may be an uphill battle if the nieces really do feel rejected and hurt now, but we don't actually know that-- they might equally feel relieved that their relatives are sensible enough not to patronize them or force unwanted affection on them, and may be grateful for being left alone.)

[korafox]

I got a similar read to this. I also come from a background of extended-family visits being a once every two years thing (parents moved halfway across the country from everyone years before I was born). As the kid in that equation, I would have been cheesed the hell off if my parents had tried to foist us kids off on any of my aunts/uncles for a just-us overnight visit. We're not the ones with a relationship with all that extended family, they are, and I didn't really have an interest in trying to interact with them outside of the adult-focused social visits. Still don't, and I'm fine with that as an adult.

So yeah, I came away wondering if the brother is trying to force a relationship here that neither side wants, for the sake of Family!. If I were the adult in this situation I would probably suck it up and deal with it for a night, but especially considering the living arrangements I can see where the LW is coming from here.

[cereta]

I think this is one of those situations we all bring our own filters and past/present experiences to. My family kind of got...dumped by my dad's family after he died, and I'm still kind of pissed about it. Likewise, I have a kid who LOVES her cousins, but whose aunts and uncles can't be bothered to make a couple of hours of time for her (or me, but I'm past caring about that) except at major holidays. When she talks about adults she loves, she talks about my best friend, or korafox. And it makes me sad. I've taken my own advice and stopped expecting them to form a relationship with her, but there's a part of me that wonders if when my mother dies, even what little contact we have will be gone.

Also, I will say that the girls probably are relieved. I just wonder how much of that comes from the LW's past behavior.