Savage Love: Drunk Straight Girls kissing

[vass]

I am one of those straight girls who like to make out with other girls when I am drunk. It’s fun to get the attention of men by kissing girls! What’s so wrong with that? Why do so many lesbians and bi women disparage this behavior? I guess it could be said that my behavior encourages men to objectify women who kiss other women. But I feel like that shouldn’t be on me! Why all the hate? I am just an adult having sexy fun with other consenting adults!
Drunk Straight Girl

I can’t believe there are still queers out there hatin’ on drunk straight girls (DSGs) who make out with other DSGs to attract the attention of drunk straight boys (DSBs). Same-sex marriage is making significant gains—hurray for Rhode Island, Delaware, Minnesota, Uruguay, France, and New Zealand—but it remains illegal in 38 states, Congress has yet to pass the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, the HIV-infection rate among young gay and bi men is up, and trans people who just want to use the toilet are being attacked in schools and state legislatures across the country. (Google “rape” and “public restroom,” and tons of stories come up—but they’re all about straight men attacking women. Want to make public restrooms safer? Ban straight men from using them.) The queer community has 99 problems—at least—but DSGs making out with DSGs ain’t one.

Comments

[vass]

When did the LW say she only made out with drunk straight girls, not drunk (or sober) lesbian or bi women who only consented to the kiss, not to helping some straight girl get laid with a straight guy?

Also: on the Savage Lovecast a few weeks ago, Dan really tore into a straight girl about how she and her friends at a hen's night got thrown out of a gay bar in Seattle for annoying all the gay men there, and the bartender was mean to the bride.

And I agreed with Dan on that one. The problem on that occasion was that the straight women there were flaunting their straight and permitted-to-marry privilege and making themselves the centre of attention in a queer space and harassing the regulars.

But on that occasion, he didn't dismiss this as not a problem because it's not same sex marriage or trans people who want to use the toilet (oh good, Dan cares about trans* people for once... oh wait, but only as a reason why lesbian and bi women's problems aren't important.)

[amadi]

I'm sure it hasn't occurred to him (and why would it?) that DSGs make it harder for non-lesbian queer women -- especially those of us who are non-monogamous -- to have our identities respected, leaving us constantly being questioned if we're really queer, or derided as attention seeking if at some points we appear more queer than others (like if we kiss girls when we're out at bars) or worse, being expected (demanded) to play to the male gaze and make our sexuality performative like DSGs do, even when we've made it clear that we have no interest in playing those sorts of games.

Is this as big a problem as the things Savage rattled off? No. Is it still a problem? Yep. Would he know or care? Doesn't have an impact on cis gay men so nope. Is he still the shittiest advice columnist going? Yep.

[havocthecat]

+1 to ALL OF THIS.

[moem]

Hm. I'm a straight woman and this would bug me.

Yes, DSG, your behaviour encourages men to objectify women who kiss other women. Why on earth shouldn't that be on you? Isn't that exactly the effect you are aiming for? To be seen as an object of (male) desire?
Plus, your behaviour is making it that much harder for women who genuinely wish to kiss/make out with/hook up with/start relationships with other women to be taken seriously. Like, they must be doing it for show, too.

This is not my problem, but I can nevertheless see why it is one. Not the worst thing in the world, sure, but still a problem.

[liv]

As far as I can tell Savage is just being sarcastic here. He's not saying "oh, it's totally fine for straight women to make out for fun to attract straight men, knock yourself out!" He's saying, "why are you so blithely behaving in a way that contributes to homophobia when homophobia leads to marriage discrimination, HIV, and trans-bashing?" Or possibly "Stop bothering me with your trivial little problems, straight woman, I'm here to help queer people who have real problems!"

[subluxate]

Since when does Savage care much about the problems of queer women when they don't affect queer men?

[liv]

You're probably right, he doesn't care. Suddenly caring about the toilet equality issue seemed a bit out of left field for him, too! This does seem like an argument for reading his response as meaning exactly what it says; he doesn't care how much nuisance this behaviour causes to bi women, because he doesn't care about bi women. But I think maybe he does see this as something that affects gay and other queer men, just because it contributes to the stereotype of non-straight orientations being all about sexual fetishes? Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, though.

[subluxate]

Drunk straight guys don't make out with each other for the sake of hooking up with drunk women, though. (At least, the vast majority don't.) And he probably knows that. So I really do think that he basically went, "Who cares if it makes things harder for queer women? NOT I. So it doesn't matter, and they should get over it!"