This should be the last one

[conuly]

DEAR ABBY: I am a 49-year-old mother of 10. I always loved my kids dearly and tried my best. But I wanted to be a friend rather than a disciplinarian, and I always gave in. I assumed that because my husband and I never did bad things around them while they were growing up, and because I always resisted peer pressure when I was a teenager, they would follow in our footsteps, but I was wrong. They are now mean to me, and most of them hate me.

I sometimes feel like I don't want to go on because I'll always feel sad and depressed. I can't remember the last time I was happy and didn't dread waking up every morning. Please find time to answer and give me some hope again. -- BROKEN IN WEST VIRGINIA

DEAR BROKEN: It's time you stopped depending on your children to validate you, and began recognizing that, for better or worse, you did the best you could as a parent. Please discuss this with your religious adviser AND your physician. You need more help than I can offer in a letter, but those are the places to start. There are better days ahead.

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Comments

[conuly]

You know, when the kids were little I distinctly remember telling people that nobody lies there on their deathbed saying "I screwed it up. I should've hugged the kids less and hit them more", and yet, here we are. Well, I guess there's always somebody.

To be clear, I don't believe LW's narrative for a second, and good for Abby for telling LW to move on.

[minoanmiss]

Admittedly she was not on her deathbed (she's probably going to outlive me) but my mother did say they were too easy on me and should have beaten me more. I should have replied, "I can't imagine how tired your arm would have been considering how much you did beat me."

LW is so clearly leaving out so much I don't even know if this really counts as a letter. My father had 9 siblings [1] and stuff Clearly WEnt Down in his childhood that I will never know the details of.

[1] maybe 10. one or two died in infancy. I'm not sure and not going to ask.

[cimorene]

Yeah... this letter is so short that it's hard to tell exactly what is going on in her head or why she's lying or what she even wanted in an answer, but she's definitely not telling a true story and then making a sincere request.

[oursin]

TEN? TEN?!?!
(Okay, I have Associations with West Virginia, isn't it massively poor since mining declined? and maybe huge families are standard?)
Gosh, I can see all sorts of issues arising just from the number - does 'giving in' include things like 'not stopping intra-sibling bullying' e.g. Was she actually parentifying the older ones?
Possibly 'giving in' was more about being thoroughly exhausted, and what does she mean, anyway, about 'not doing bad things around them'?

[lilysea]

Often "I wanted to be a friend to my children"

actually means

"I, the parent, dumped my emotional needs and fears and worries on my children when they were far too young, and expected my children to provide me with the sort of emotional support that is only appropriate to seek from an adult spouse/adult partner or an adult friend"

[conuly]

I'm not sure that West Virginia was ever *not* massively poor.

[mrissa]

Poverty and large families are correlated lots of places, but yeah, these are all quite good questions.

[cassildra]

If LW weren't from WV, I'd be asking something like "Mom, is that you?"

[ambyr]

How old are these kids, and to what extent are they “mean to” and “hate” LW because they’re teens and young adults? If she had a kid every other year between 18 and 38, then most of them are currently at an age where this is not uncommon identity-formation behavior.

[dissectionist]

THIS. “I had poor boundaries, didn’t teach them how to have boundaries and so set them up for a lifetime of struggle and relearning, expected them to parent themselves and the younger ones because doing the parenting myself was too much work, and now I’m so confused why they’re angry at me.” Good god, the obliviousness in this letter. Kids _need_ a firm understanding of reasonable rules and an environment where expectations are not ever-shifting, and it’s a parent’s responsibility to create that structure for them.

[castiron]

This is a really good point.

[ashbet]

One of the ways in which I succeeded as a parent was realizing that just doing the opposite of what my hyper-strict, controlling parents did (I half-joke that I was “raised like veal”) would not actually be doing my child any favors.

Excessive permissiveness and acting like a “friend” to minor kids doesn’t provide them with adequate boundaries and structure, and often results in parentification or inappropriate emotional enmeshment.

My daughter and I are friends NOW (she’s 30, she’s awesome, we’re very close), but that’s because we can now primarily see each other as adult peers.

[petrea_mitchell]

There are sects in the US that believe in having tons of kids to create an army of believers that will win them the culture wars. A lot of those kids wind up leaving that version of Christianity when they grow up.

This might be what Abby was thinking of when she guessed that LW would have a religious adviser.

[feast_of_regrets]

If ALL TEN children are now mean and hate you, the children are not the problem, LW. Good advice, but I wish it had suggested that LW's unhappiness is her own responsibility and maybe floated a next step or two instead of just leaving that to this theoretical conversation with her religious guide or doctor.

[feast_of_regrets]

So much this.

[adrian_turtle]

The letter was obviously edited a LOT. The part about her religion was edited out, for instance. (If somebody wrote in complaining of depression and troubled relationships with her kids, I think Abby would have pointed her to a therapist and a physician. Not a religious advisor, unless LW had mentioned being at least somewhat religious.) Something I suspect Abby noticed but did not call out specifically is perimenopause.

LW: I'm a 49-year-old mother...I sometimes feel like I don't want to go on because I'll always feel sad and depressed.
Abby: Consult your physician.
Everyone else: Perimenopause sucks!

[dissectionist]

Agreed. You should be your child’s confidant when they want you to be (they should always feel safe coming to you to ask questions or discuss issues they’re facing), but that isn’t the same thing as acting like one of their peers. I think a lot of parents don’t understand that distinction.

[cora]

I read parentification in there, too...and then saw the ten kids. Parentification would have happened along with at least one child's childhood being stolen due to someone feeling the need to step up and take care of siblings.

Yeahhhhh...on the one hand "you're not going to get validation from your kids," and on the other hand...all ten want nothing to do with you? Bruh, you screwed up, and I am willing to bet the kids have told LW how and when, and LW just really doesn't like the answers.

[cora]

To which I would also point out there is still parenting left to do! There is time for LW to listen and implement feedback to be the parent their remaining children deserve.

I hope this letter was written in a moment of despair and this isn't the overall sentiment LW has about her parenting...but also, the advice of "your kids don't exist to validate you" is even more spot on for literal children than it is for a parent with adult children.

[ashbet]

Yeah, the “religious advisor” thing jumped out at me as inappropriate, based on the contents of the published letter.

[lethe1]

Maybe it's different in America, but here in the Netherlands, if someone has 10 kids it is because they are religious and don't believe in birth control.

[mommy]

I can only wonder what "never did bad things" and "follow in our footsteps" refers to. I think it means she's very evangelical with all that entails and that her kids are not, but I'm not positive.

[adrian_turtle]

That is often the case here as well, but other reasons for not using birth control include poverty, cluelessness, and access to a medical provider who approved. Birth control pills have nasty side effects for some people, and they're expensive. IUDs are very expensive, and 30 years ago most American doctors thought they were incredibly dangerous. And condoms require consistent use: both partners paying attention every time even when they're grabbing a quickie.

And of course some people really like babies, but that will usually get you 4 or 5 kids, not 10.

[conuly]

Yes, that's usually it in the USA too, or else they had some number of the children as a teenager or young adult, and then had the second batch later and that second batch might include some multiples.

[melannen]

Either that or they turned into Q-Anoners over the past ten years and the kids didn't.

[laurajv]

I mean, there's a difference between hugging-not-hitting and being a friend instead of a parent, and it's a pretty important one.

[laurajv]

yes, exactly.

my mother is my friend NOW, but that was a transition we went through as I reached adulthood. I didn't need a friend at 6 months, or 6, or 16. I needed a mother, and that's what she provided.