agonyaunt | (no subject)

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Dear Amy: I recently turned 21. I will be the first in my group of friends to graduate from college. This happens in a few weeks.

It feels like life is starting to return to a sense of normalcy as the pandemic recedes, and my friends and I are socializing more outside of our homes – going out dancing, and enjoying the nightlife.

My best friend and I are not big drinkers and every time we go out men pressure us to drink and then try to shame us for not "knowing how to party."

Can you help us come up with a witty comeback to shut down the pressure to drink?

– Happy Teetotaler

Dear Happy: Alcohol is the only drug I can think of where people are continuously asked to explain why they are NOT using it. Understand, however, that you are a part of a growing community of people who are choosing to live sober.

Much as I enjoy offering snappy comebacks, I think the most important thing for you to do is to completely own your sobriety.

The only good thing about being shamed for “not knowing how to party” is that it offers you a very quick insight into the people who do this (women also pressure people to drink).

People who pressure you to party are throwing down red flags, and you should take this as your cue to avoid them.

You’re starting to venture out now for your first time as a legal adult, and so you should take some basics to heart:

Never accept a drink from anyone other than directly from your trusted companion or from the bartender.

Your professional bartender is your friend here. State that you aren’t drinking alcohol and ask for suggestions of a good substitute. A seasoned bartender will give you alternatives and also take this as a cue to keep an eye on you. If you ever feel threatened or even uncomfortable, let the bartender and/or club security know.

(No matter what you’re drinking, tip the bar staff well.)

Regarding explaining your sobriety, it would be easy for you to lie:

“I’m celebrating ‘Dry July.’”

“I’m running a marathon tomorrow.”

“Shhhhhh – I’m pregnant.”

“One more DUI and I’m in the slammer.”

“I need to stay sober so I won’t slip in your vomit later.”

But owning your sobriety looks something like this: “I don’t drink because I don’t want to. Thank you for respecting my choice.”

https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/askamy/s-2677589?fs

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LW doesn't need a witty rejoinder. She only needs two words: Fuck off.

Hope she doesn't leave her drink unattended near any of these assholes.

Edit: Upon re-read, I'm just projecting that LW is female. Those men are still assholes, though.

Edited 2022-05-26 21:52 (UTC)

"No thanks, I'm driving."

One cannot party without alcohol?

I mean, I came from a family that barely drank and a community that barely drank, so my family had wonderful parties at which not a drop of alcohol was consumed and I knew that a good time was to be had stone cold sober - admittedly, in the company of the right kind of people.

Speaking from personal experience, this doesn't work -

I was pressured to drink AT WORK by coworkers and bosses (think Friday afternoon drinks at the workplace as a team bonding thing)

and when I said no thanks, I'm driving

they said "Oh, so are we, it's just one standard drink, it'll be out of your system in an hour"

I dug my heels in and continued to refuse, but it was awkward and uncomfortable and hurt my standing in the workplace - after refusing to drink at work EVER, I'm pretty sure they all decided I was a former alcoholic. (I'm not, I'm a life-long tea-totaller, I've never drunk alcohol.)

"Party" is a euphemism in some places. Unfortunately, it's hard to tell where it's a euphemism for hooking up, and where it's a euphemism for binge drinking. Leads to all kinds of misunderstandings.

Sometimes they think you're a former alcoholic. Sometimes they think you have religious reasons for not drinking. Either of those can make people very uncomfortable, because they conclude you disapprove of THEM drinking and they resent it. (Yes, people draw these conclusions from silence, or from "I'd just like a ginger ale.") My mother taught me to accept one drink and hold it as long as necessary to be polite. In my experience, nobody cares if you drink it; they feel like you are affirming the drinking culture so long as you buy a drink, hold it, smile at it, and maybe kiss the rim of the glass once in a while.

More and more often these days, medical excuses are accepted without question or comment. Of course, disclosing anything medical to coworkers or bosses can be risky and problematic and nobody should have to do it...but there are plenty of drugs and medical conditions that interact with alcohol, and some of them are boring and low-stigma. (Sorry. Can't drink. Allergy meds. Can I buy you one?) I remember one trip where a colleague of mine was getting pressured to drink, and saying no thanks, and oh go ahead you really should! Until she finally said she was pregnant. She hadn't wanted to tell anyone until she was farther along.

...ugh. Just ugh. I do drink! And I would absolutely, 100% (or 200 proof, if you prefer ;) ) not drink with dudes like that. Because if they are insisting that people, especially presumably-female people, cannot "party" without drinking, that is a really clear red flag that their idea of "partying" involves "getting women to lower their inhibitions artificially so that they will do things of a sexual nature they'd actually rather not." And I am an old and was never much for things involving large groups of strangers and loud noise, but I swear I would say something like that to a dude who tried that line on me.

(Also, it comes to me that this is possibly related to the scaremongering that some dudes do about "women who will regret sex they've had and then accuse the guy of rape", because, hey, dudes, maybe if you weren't a sex pest, and/or didn't try to get women intoxicated so that they will have sex with you that they don't want to, this would not be a problem. But that maybe be a side issue. Or it may not.)

People do get weird about refusals to drink -- and I say this as someone who does drink myself. The thing is, I don't drink beer. There is something about the flavor of beer (all beer!) that I fundamentally dislike. And it is next to impossible to make people stop offering me beer if I am at an event where that is the only available alcohol.

I think there's a sort of unspoken assumption that drinking alcohol brings a group together and affirms social bonds. Social drinking (to whatever degree) is almost a ritual, and many people get uncomfortable when other people refuse to participate in a central cultural ritual. I don't have a good shorthand for, "I'm not judging you or trying to remove myself from the group; I just don't want to drink alcohol." Particularly because raising those issues at all (judgment, holding oneself apart) can make the people who are drinking feel defensive, because they may not have consciously thought about that aspect, now feel weird about it, and get angry because that's less uncomfortable than feeling awkward and rude.

Also some people are just assholes and want to get people drunk and vulnerable, but it can be hard to distinguish that from the people reacting badly to a broken social ritual. :(

It can be simpler to just take the beer, hold it for a while before quietly abandoning it on a counter/dumping it down a handy sink, and then tell everyone, "I'm stopping at one tonight." That seems to be an easier sell than, "I don't drink." Which sucks, but sometimes you have to pick your fights.

...Also maybe find places to socialize that don't center around alcohol? I understand that can be difficult if you like other aspects of nightclubs (dancing, flirting, etc.), but it sounds like the cons may be outweighing the pros at this point.

I can't count the number of times I've been told "Don't be so unsociable!" at gatherings when I said I don't drink alcohol. When I go on to explain it's not for religious reasons or anything, I just don't like the taste of it, that is usually accepted without further nagging. (I am very fussy when it comes to drinks: water, black tea or fresh orange juice, nothing else.)

I do like alcohol in my food, strangely enough. A white wine sauce or port sauce for instance, yummy!

I was going to write this comment but your version says all I was thinking and more. And I don't think it's a side issue at all.

Men who pressure women to drink are conveniently displaying a bright flashing neon sign saying "I am not a safe person for you to have sex with". Unfortunately too many women are trained to wear neon-blocking goggles.

I'm just projecting that LW is female.

Well, the letter does say "men" and not "other men"... so it seems likely.

Regardless, yes.

OMG, thanks so much! And... yeah, this particular LW and columnist didn't really talk about the "dudes might not have to worry of being accused of rape after the fact if they didn't use coercive tactics before the fact" angle, so I wasn't sure it was on-topic for this particular letter. But, definitely part of the same problem at a larger level!

Actually, and I didn't put this into words until I started composing a reply to you, but the alcohol-pestering and the sex-pestering really come from the same place: dudes who think it is okay to bully, pressure, and coerce women into putting unwanted things in their bodies because it will be more fun for the dudes, regardless of how the women feel about it.

Just wanted to fistbump in solidarity as a fellow "does drink, but not beer" person! And people can be really pushy about it, and I'm like, "hey, if my stomach is cramping just from the smell of something, then, no, I am not putting it my mouth, and this is true of anything and not just alcohol".

Solidarity fistbump!

I did actual science on beer. I tried a really high-quality German beer (from a tap, not canned) on a hot day after I'd taken a two-mile walk, which should be the ideal conditions, right? And those ideal conditions only managed to shift the flavor of beer from "YUCK!!!" to "Blecch." I think that is pretty conclusive, yet people still suggest new and different beer varieties to me, under the impression that this one will somehow be different. :/

it's super weird to me that Amy phrases this as about sobriety, which....granted "sobriety" in drinking contexts is not _always_ about someone who doesn't drink because they are a recovering alcoholic, but it definitely _usually_ is.

I have had luck responding to pressure with "no thanks, I don't mix alcohol with other drugs", which most of the time gets read as "I'm on prescription meds and I don't want to talk about it" and will shut even minimally polite people up; if they do ask what other drugs you reply "I'm high on LIFE!" which is so incredibly, blastingly dorky it creates a five-foot anti-peer-pressure field around you, provides preliminary evidence that you're probably high on *something*, and can sometimes also be delivered passive-aggressively enough to shame them for asking.

It also sidesteps the part you reference here where people can read as refusing to drink as rejecting the group, because it's hard to interpret it as you *not* wanting to get high with them.

(But, not to be blastingly dorky, I do also tend to avoid spaces where most people are more interested in getting binge-drunk than getting high on life, and this may not work as well there.)

Edited 2022-05-31 16:31 (UTC)

Overpowering dorkiness can be a winning life strategy! ...And also avoiding situations where drinking-to-get-drunk is a majority goal, absolutely. There are much more interesting ways to spend an evening. :)

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