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agonyaunt2021-12-22 12:52 pm
minoanmiss) wrote in agonyaunt2021-12-22 12:52 pm
Dear Prudie: I Found My Husband's List of Every Argument We Ever Had
Contains reader reactions.
I am married to a very smart, very calm man. We get along well, I’m a stay-at-home mom at the moment, and we have a lovely toddler. I, like a lot of moms, feel like a lot of my efforts are unseen, and it resulted in a fight the other night. It was nothing particularly toxic, but when he left for a meeting, he left his computer on.
It didn’t take much to find a list that he’s been keeping for a year of every quarrel that he has with me. He’s kept a list of things he feels I bullied him into, times when he felt like he was in the right…it’s all there. This whole time, I’ve asked him explicitly “are we okay?” and he says we’re fine, but…there’s a list!
And now I have no idea what to do. I was snooping, so do I acknowledge that as well as the fact that he’s keeping an active list of grievances? Do I go through the list and try to address each time I was wrong and just pretend that I’m doing this by chance? There are things on there that I’ve always been super insecure about and convinced myself he wasn’t bothered by. I’m honestly so thrown off by this. What should I do? Is this divorce territory?
Oh no. I’m sure that list was hard to see. But I don’t think this is a crisis, and it certainly isn’t divorce territory. You’re going through a difficult patch as a couple and as parents, and we now know that his response has been … to write things down. That’s not bad! He didn’t cheat, he didn’t talk horribly about you behind your back, and he didn’t remove you from his life insurance policy. In the same way you wrote this letter to me about what was bothering you, he wrote down things that were bothering him. Should he feel betrayed by this letter? I hope you don’t think so! What you saw was documentation of his thoughts—thoughts that are similar to the ones I’m sure you’ve had after you’ve bumped heads.
This does sound like an important sign that you need to be having more conversations—not just fights and disagreements, but check-ins about how you’re doing and feeling, and more than “Are we okay?” You don’t have to tell him you saw the list to initiate this (I think that would just open up another set of issues around trust; just promise yourself you won’t snoop again). Maybe that means couple’s therapy or maybe it means a good sit-down conversation in which you tell him you want to make sure your relationship is strong and would like to know if there’s anything you can do better. The important thing is that you should let him know it’s okay to open up when something is bothering him. And of course, you should do the same.
Reactions:
Prudie, are you kidding? He kept a list FOR A YEAR of things she did that he didn’t like, never talking to her about any of it. This is deeply weird behavior. This merits a convo starting with WTF and leading to serious counseling.
A: I really don’t think it’s that much weirder than keeping a list in your head—different people process things differently. Those were his private thoughts. And it’s definitely not weirder or more damaging to the relationship than snooping.
Jenée’s answer papers over an important issue here: the snooping. The letter writer should not have been snooping in her husband’s files. The fact that she transgressed those boundaries is VERY worrying for the state of their relationship.
A: I felt like I mentioned that? If it wasn’t clear, let me say it again: Don’t snoop!
I journal, it’s part of my yoga practice. Sometimes I work things through about my husband. Sometimes they’re … not very nice because I haven’t “digested” it yet and I’m feeling raw. It doesn’t mean we’re not “okay.” This is most likely true of what your husband wrote.
My journal is sitting out on the table where I write/work at the computer. My husband once said to me, “I flicked through it and then thought—maybe it’s private.” I told him he did feature—it’s nothing he doesn’t know about, but sometimes in harsher words.
It doesn’t sound like you have this sort of a marriage, my point in bringing it up is that Prudie is right—it would be good for the two of you to communicate either more or better.
A: Yes, it seems that to some people, writing is a way to process thoughts and to other people, writing a thought down somehow makes it more official or consequential. Journaling people get where I’m coming from—and what the letter writer’s husband was likely doing. I agree that the problem is that the writing seems to be happening instead of communicating.
I am married to a very smart, very calm man. We get along well, I’m a stay-at-home mom at the moment, and we have a lovely toddler. I, like a lot of moms, feel like a lot of my efforts are unseen, and it resulted in a fight the other night. It was nothing particularly toxic, but when he left for a meeting, he left his computer on.
It didn’t take much to find a list that he’s been keeping for a year of every quarrel that he has with me. He’s kept a list of things he feels I bullied him into, times when he felt like he was in the right…it’s all there. This whole time, I’ve asked him explicitly “are we okay?” and he says we’re fine, but…there’s a list!
And now I have no idea what to do. I was snooping, so do I acknowledge that as well as the fact that he’s keeping an active list of grievances? Do I go through the list and try to address each time I was wrong and just pretend that I’m doing this by chance? There are things on there that I’ve always been super insecure about and convinced myself he wasn’t bothered by. I’m honestly so thrown off by this. What should I do? Is this divorce territory?
Oh no. I’m sure that list was hard to see. But I don’t think this is a crisis, and it certainly isn’t divorce territory. You’re going through a difficult patch as a couple and as parents, and we now know that his response has been … to write things down. That’s not bad! He didn’t cheat, he didn’t talk horribly about you behind your back, and he didn’t remove you from his life insurance policy. In the same way you wrote this letter to me about what was bothering you, he wrote down things that were bothering him. Should he feel betrayed by this letter? I hope you don’t think so! What you saw was documentation of his thoughts—thoughts that are similar to the ones I’m sure you’ve had after you’ve bumped heads.
This does sound like an important sign that you need to be having more conversations—not just fights and disagreements, but check-ins about how you’re doing and feeling, and more than “Are we okay?” You don’t have to tell him you saw the list to initiate this (I think that would just open up another set of issues around trust; just promise yourself you won’t snoop again). Maybe that means couple’s therapy or maybe it means a good sit-down conversation in which you tell him you want to make sure your relationship is strong and would like to know if there’s anything you can do better. The important thing is that you should let him know it’s okay to open up when something is bothering him. And of course, you should do the same.
Reactions:
Prudie, are you kidding? He kept a list FOR A YEAR of things she did that he didn’t like, never talking to her about any of it. This is deeply weird behavior. This merits a convo starting with WTF and leading to serious counseling.
A: I really don’t think it’s that much weirder than keeping a list in your head—different people process things differently. Those were his private thoughts. And it’s definitely not weirder or more damaging to the relationship than snooping.
Jenée’s answer papers over an important issue here: the snooping. The letter writer should not have been snooping in her husband’s files. The fact that she transgressed those boundaries is VERY worrying for the state of their relationship.
A: I felt like I mentioned that? If it wasn’t clear, let me say it again: Don’t snoop!
I journal, it’s part of my yoga practice. Sometimes I work things through about my husband. Sometimes they’re … not very nice because I haven’t “digested” it yet and I’m feeling raw. It doesn’t mean we’re not “okay.” This is most likely true of what your husband wrote.
My journal is sitting out on the table where I write/work at the computer. My husband once said to me, “I flicked through it and then thought—maybe it’s private.” I told him he did feature—it’s nothing he doesn’t know about, but sometimes in harsher words.
It doesn’t sound like you have this sort of a marriage, my point in bringing it up is that Prudie is right—it would be good for the two of you to communicate either more or better.
A: Yes, it seems that to some people, writing is a way to process thoughts and to other people, writing a thought down somehow makes it more official or consequential. Journaling people get where I’m coming from—and what the letter writer’s husband was likely doing. I agree that the problem is that the writing seems to be happening instead of communicating.
no subject
I've been bullet journaling for years and "fights and slights with my wife" is not a normal collection to have.
It reads like husband is keeping score, and doing so in a way that's way more troubling to me than the wife's impulsive snooping.
no subject
Huh, I disagree with your take on which is worse.
When [female relative] and [her male husband] used to fight, he'd go through her phone and use what he found there as ammo for the next round of fighting. When I found out, I panicked and was so worried about her, asked her to go to a hotel that night. Because when a man goes through a woman's electronic devices, we know it's controlling and abuse-adjacent. (She was fine, and they mended their relationship.)
I acknowledge that the power dynamics and the DV statistics make it implausible to just say "if it's borderline abuse when a man does it to a woman, then it also is when a woman does it to a man." And yet... LW has a whole novel of missing reasons for her behavior. He left his computer on so she immediately, by her own admission, went looking for dirt? After a non-bad argument which was just about feeling underappreciated? I mean, just this quotation alone:
What's missing there? "We argued, nothing bad, and then I decided to..." What was she looking for? Why? She doesn't sound scared of him, or particularly angry. If it was just an impulse you'd think she'd sound ashamed now.
I don't think this LW is at risk for becoming a domestic abuser. But I also don't want to undervalue how utterly toxic it is to be not safe in the privacy of your own electronic space.
no subject