Co-Worker Spreading Lies

[conuly]

Dear Annie: I have worked in the same office for 18 years. For many years, there were five of us in our division: three women and two men. One of the men left for a different job a year ago, and he was replaced by a woman, "Carla," who is very difficult to work with. In fact, I'm convinced that she is a liar and a troublemaker.

The only man left in our division, "Fred," is quiet and shy but fundamentally a very kind man. He has never married, and I don't ever remember him going on a date. He lives with his mother, goes to church and does not seem to have a lot of other activities. I'm not sure if he has any friends.

Carla claimed that Fred asked her on a date, which I found difficult to believe. She then claimed that Fred committed sexual assault on her, which I found impossible to believe. She reported her claims to human resources, and they investigated. Poor Fred. I thought he was going to have a heart attack!

It turns out that the most aggressive they found him to be was to agree to give Carla a ride home after work one day when her car was in the shop. He said he dropped her off and went home to have dinner with his mother, and his mother backed up his story. Carla made up all kinds of scary stuff, and anyone who knows Fred knows those things didn't happen. Human resources concluded that they had no proof of any wrongdoing, so they would let the matter go. They encouraged Carla to file a police report if she wanted the matter investigated more thoroughly. She declined to do so.

I am determined to get rid of Carla. I used to love my job, but now I dread going to work because I have to interact with her every day. I can only imagine how Fred feels. The two other women in our division agree with Fred and me and don't want anything to do with Carla. Do you have any advice for us? -- Dreading Carla

Dear Dreading Carla: My advice is for the four of you to visit the human resources manager of your company. You can ask that Carla be fired, or, at a minimum, moved to another department. Explain how awkward your work has become because of this drama queen. It really is true that one rotten apple can spoil the whole barrel. Sexual assault allegations are not to be taken lightly, and it seems like your human resources department did their due diligence.

https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/dearannie/s-2272291

Comments

[conuly]

I don't know what happened. I do know that "Quiet, shy, keeps to himself, no friends but lives with Mom and goes to church" is the bio of, like 85% of all serial killers and serial rapists out there. Which isn't to say that everybody with that bio is a bad guy, but....

LW doesn't know what happened. She's not Fred's friend. She's his coworker. She needs to back off and let Fred handle his own shit.

[azurelunatic]

That's disturbing.

[staranise]

NOT ENOUGH YIKES IN THE WORLD

[shirou]

One employee should not be "determined to get rid of" another. We may not know what Carla and Fred did, but LW, we know what you're trying to do is wrong.

[rmc28]

I note that the only example offered of Carla being "very difficult to work with" is this allegation of sexual assault.

No mention of, for example, routinely being rude, obstructive, not doing her share of the work, spending half the morning complaining except when the boss is around, or other such habits of unpleasant coworkers.

Why does this LW "dread" interacting with Carla every day? Could it be that Carla is not warm and friendly towards someone who clearly thinks she is a liar and a troublemaker?

[lilysea]

"Research for the Home Office suggests that only 4% of cases of sexual violence reported to the UK police are found or suspected to be false. Studies carried out in Europe and in the US indicate rates of between 2% and 6%."[1]

So, the Letter Writer should ask themselves, "What would I do if there was a 94% to 98% chance that my coworker really WAS sexually assaulted?"

And then do that.

[1] https://theconversation.com/heres-the-truth-about-false-accusations-of-sexual-violence-88049

[eva_rosen]

Wow, does Annie give effed up advise on the regular. Regarding the letter, predators are often very nice and harmless to those they don't prey upon. I've hear neighbours of a guy who murdered his wife in front of their toddler daughter say 'but he was so nice! He said good morning with a smile every day!" Also, co-workers of serial rapists pretty much swearing the women (and girls, in one case were very young girls) must be liars because the dude brough pastries for everyone or never came in late, as if it was at all related. Any excuse not to believe.

[welcomingsong]

Annie thinks the right way to deal with this situation is to try to convince the LW's employer to commit an act of retaliation against an employee because she alleged she was sexual assaulted by a co-worker? I don't know what country LW is in, but I can't imagine it's one where this would be a good legal move by the employer. And I'll bet the employer won't be terribly thrilled by the letter writer suggesting they put themselves at risk that way!

[ambyr]

I literally cannot think of a situation in which an HR department would well-receive a group of coworkers asking for someone to be fired. That’s not how it works. That’s not how any of this works.

[cereta]

I am not sure I can even list the number of things wrong with both the letter and the response. Let's start with "firing her would be illegal" and move down to "you do not, in fact, actually know what happened."

[eleanorjane]

Also, since when does any corporate HR department give a flying fuck whether a working situation is ~awkward~?

I mean, COME ON. You can really tell Annie hasn't worked a corporate drone job in a while, or possibly ever.

[minoanmiss]

*deleted my first reply which was just useless shock*

Would it be useful or shit-stirring to forward this to Ask A Manager and say "oh my God please give this its proper answer before someone gets hurt?"

[beable]

Useful!

Also OMG please point out why Annie's answer was not just unhelpful but actively harmful and wrong and opening up prospects of all sorts of other trouble!

Holy hell.

Also...

[cereta]

Just as an implied warning to others: one frakking glance at the comments on Arcamax is probably enough to keep me away from there for months.

[movingfinger]

There seems to be an etiquette among advice columnists not to revisit one another's letters without being asked. Alison at AAM will sometimes page Captain Awkward, e.g., and vice-versa. But I have never seen an advice columnist weigh in with "This advice is bad" from the sidelines.

[staranise]

Alas, for the days of thatbadadvice.

[conuly]

Yup.

[conuly]

Maybe both, but have at it.

[minoanmiss]

Movingfinger pointed out a reason why it might be a bad idea. OTOH that advice is SO VERY AWFUL.

[minoanmiss]

Yeah. I might put Alison in a bad position, and since I'm not a regular there people might think I'm just troublemaking.

But this advice is so bad. It's legally, ethically, morally, and humanly BAD. I feel consumed with the rage-fueled need to DO SOMETHING.

augh.

Re: Also...

[minoanmiss]

I can just envision. *shudders*

[conuly]

It is an utter mystery.

[conuly]

Meh, if Ask A Manager doesn't want to re-answer it, that's her choice.

Re: Also...

[conuly]

You can't. It's worse than you think.

[conuly]

So email it. Then Alison is the only person who knows what you did.

[conuly]

Indeed. If Fred can't stand working with Carla, he should ask to be reassigned. Ditto for LW.

[minoanmiss]

I tried to submit it to the Friday Duscission Thread but my comment vanished. I'm taking that as a sign from the Internet Entirties that I should hold off.

[heavenscalyx]

Also, mothers of serial rapists/murderers covering for them. I can't count how many I've seen on Forensic Files.

[beable]

I like this.
And then if she wants to find a way to address (even just the legal issues) she can choose to.

[conuly]

I can sorta see covering for one crime. I mean, I don't think I'd do that, but it is juuuuuuuuuuust within the realm of plausibility that you might do that for a friend or family member. I guess. But after murder number 10, you've got to stop enabling!

[conuly]

Maybe Annie is deliberately trolling them so they get fired.

[conuly]

Mmm, that's a pretty strong sign.

Re: Also...

[cereta]

Dude. When Chris and TexasFuckingOutcast are the ones voicing the possibility that maybe, just maybe, the LW doesn't really know for certain what happened? We are doomed.

Re: Also...

[conuly]

Two names of people I've blocked and kept blocked, so. What's Volcano saying?

Re: Also...

[cereta]

I didn't really notice. Normally, I've got them and Texas blocked, but I wasn't logged in on the computer where I first looked at them.

[redbird]

Sexual assault allegations are not to be taken lightly

That's an impressive example of someone not listening to what they're saying. At most, HR (who are not law enforcement, meaning among other things that Fred's mother takes no risk by lying to them) said "we don't know," and both Annie and the LW are taking that as "we are sure he's innocent, so innocent that she is at fault for complaining."

[rosefox]

Comments with links are automatically sent to spam. It might have been released by now.

[rosefox]

I really want to know how the LW knows so many details of what certainly should have been a confidential investigation.

[ayebydan]

holy heck this

[ayebydan]

point

[ayebydan]

riiiiight

[minoanmiss]

It was. The results were... suboptimal, though. I should have submitted it as a question.